Why Parents of LGBTQ+ Kids Need Their Own “Coming In” Process, with Matt Seelos
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@hopestreamcommunity.org
Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Guest: Matt Seelos, Elevations RTC
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About this episode:
The experience of coming out as an LGBTQ+ youth varies wildly across the country and world. In some families and communities, it’s celebrated. In others, condemned. But my guest on this episode of Hopestream says that we often forget about the “coming in” process needed for parents and families of those youth.
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Matt: [00:00:00]
The coming out process is typically an individual that's been questioning their gender or, you know, sexual orientation or things like that. They've been thinking about that for a long time. I have to help the kids that I work with understand, like, You've been processing this for months to years, and now you're expecting your parents just to hear that and be like, okay, great.
Brenda:
You're listening to HopeStream. If you're parenting a young person who misuses substances, is in a treatment program, or finding their way to recovery, you're in the right place. This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me, Brenda Zane, your host and fellow mom to a child who struggled.[00:01:00]
This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents. So after the episode, head over to our website at hopestreamcommunity. org. I'm so glad you're here. Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people. And now let's get into today's show. Hey, it is so good to be here with you today.
I am so glad you're here, tuning in, filling your toolbox. There is so much to absorb and think about, and I'm just really glad you take the time each week to be intentional about learning, which In a bit of a roundabout way, I believe is a form of self care. The reason I say that is the more educated you become, the more you start to understand the why behind the behaviors that you may be seeing.
And when you understand something, it provides clarity and clarity is an excellent anxiety reducer. Now there could also be times, of course, when you [00:02:00] need to pause your learning quest and just listen to a fun podcast about knitting or some comedy or something light and fun. And that is great self care too.
So just know if you're feeling overwhelmed and like you are at the brink with all of the substance use and mental health content, just take a break. It's one of the benefits of the digital age that we're in, stuff is always there. Remember back in the day when if you missed an episode of the Waltons, you just lost out.
There was no rewind, no on demand. You either got to watch it or you didn't. Anyway, everything is still going to be here if you press pause and consume some totally fun and mindless stuff for a while. Today, I had the immense pleasure of speaking with Matt Selos from Elevations Residential Treatment Center in Utah.
Matt has worked in the mental health field for 20 years. [00:03:00] He's a primary therapist there, and he is trained in EMDR, which is eye movement desensitization reprocessing. He's also trained in DBT, CBT, ACT, which is acceptance and commitment therapy, sand play therapy. And psychoanalytic Jungian therapy, all of the therapies and all the acronyms.
But being versed in all of these allows Matt to have multiple modalities to turn to as resources when he's supporting an individual and allows him to meet them wherever they are in their journey. He is participating in some special training from the Chad World Conference in order to help those individuals with executive functioning, NLD, which is nonverbal learning disorder, and ADD, ADHD.
And he's attended the Gender Education and Demystification Symposium, also known as GEMS, to stay [00:04:00] current in how to best support transgender individuals. That really helped break down some of the complexities and the dynamics in families. When a young person is questioning their gender or sexual orientation, he cleared up some questions around pronouns, how we can be inclusive and sensitive as parents, if your child is gender non conforming, and had an interesting perspective on what he calls the coming in and coming out process, and why parents need to recognize the grief that can accompany having a child.
who is transgender or gender non conforming. He also has a recommendation for parents based on research done around kids who identify as LGBTQ plus and suicide, which is worth listening to, even if your child doesn't identify that way. It is a highly educational and enlightening conversation that I can't wait for you to hear.
Please take a listen now to me and Matt Selos from Elevations [00:05:00] RTC.
Hey Matt, welcome to Hope Stream. I'm excited to have you here today coming at us from Utah, right? Yep,
Matt: yep. From Syracuse, Utah. I'm glad to be able to join you today and spend a little time talking with you.
Brenda: I know. So where is Syracuse?
Matt: Syracuse is about 20 minutes north of Salt Lake City. Okay, so you're right there.
We're a little bit north and west, so over by the Great Salt Lake.
Brenda: Nice, nice. That, I went to the Great Salt Lake when my son was in treatment. Um, he was in Ogden and it was the coolest place. I think it's really an interesting place people should go visit.
Matt: Yeah, yeah, we're, we're about five minutes from Antelope [00:06:00] Island, so that's a fun place to go over and, and see and, you know, if you've never seen Buffalo, there's Buffalo on the island.
Brenda: Cool. Well, I'm, I'm excited to have this conversation. I think it's one that parents, um, we have a lot of confusion around, um, gender identity and just how it all works because most of us are, I would say, mid forties to. late fifties. Um, and so this, this, uh, questioning gender and all that is just something that we did not grow up with.
So we're, we're just definitely confused about it, I think for a lot of, a lot of parts. And so I really appreciate you being here to, um, help us understand some of it and ask the dumb questions that we just need help on. But first, before, before we dive into all of that, maybe you could just give us a little bit of background on how you became interested in psychology.
You're [00:07:00] a licensed clinical social worker. And just a little bit, maybe like what's your role today? What's a typical day like for you? Just ground us in a, in a, in a day in the life of
Matt: Matt. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I got my bachelor's degree in psychology from the University of Utah and always kind of knew I liked working with teenagers.
I did some work with, uh, younger kids doing some prevention and things like that. Um, I've done couples therapy and, and worked with adults, but, but really kind of my wheelhouse is teenagers. And so I worked in this field for 22 years now. And just really enjoy it, um, working with teens that struggle with substance use, the co occurring disorders, you know, mental health issues, things like that.
And I would say in the last eight years, really been able to work with individuals that are Struggling, questioning [00:08:00] gender identity, um, or just helping them in their transition in their, you know, gender identity. So being able to play a role in that process with the family, with the individuals. Um, because they've often been in, in various spots, you know, from coming out to parents to working on getting on hormones to having surgery.
Um, so I, I played all different spots in that process.
Brenda: What was it about, um, or what is it about teens and adolescents that you like? You know,
Matt: when I was a teenager full of angst and, you know, I grew up with grunge music and kinda like, yeah, you don't know me, you don't know what's going on. And , um, and, and just realizing like, it, it would, would've been helpful if I had somebody or more people in my life.
I kind of could've just understood and talked with me about that instead of being like, you're just an angry teenager. Like, [00:09:00] get over it. And you know, I think a lot of times. You know, as older generations, we kind of look at it. You don't know what hard was when I was growing up. This is what we dealt with.
And, you know, you know, as a teenager, that, that feels pretty invalidating. And it's like, yeah, we don't know what it's like to grow up in, in a digital world, you know, And have to deal with the fact that, you know, there's things like, you know, you got bullied on the playground and in school, you got to go home and you have freedom from it.
And now that bullying, you know, can follow you with the cyber bullying. And so it's just really being able to help provide support to, to kids that are struggling and need someone to talk to. Yeah. I
Brenda: think you're right. The, they do feel really misunderstood. And I remember that. And, and honestly, the world was so much simpler.
You know, when I was a teenager, I can't even imagine what they're dealing with now. I forget, because I live in Seattle and, you know, being on the West Coast, I [00:10:00] forget, honestly, that questioning your gender or being in the LGBT community or one of the communities, or,
different because I'm just so steeped in it here in Seattle where it's just normal. But I had a friend that I worked with who was from a very small town in Mississippi. And he at one point was really afraid for his life and moved here to Seattle because he was so not accepted. And so I think for people who might be listening on, you know, Uh, us coastal people, we're like, I don't know, what's the big deal, right?
Like, okay, but there's a lot of the country that's not like that. And do you see that, like how, because, so I have, I have to remove my sort of acceptance filter because I'm like, Oh, I don't know. Okay. What do you see with families that are coming from some of these areas that. are not accepting. It's [00:11:00] not okay.
Matt: You know, so I have the opportunity as well, even though I'm in Utah, to work with kids from all across the nation. I have worked with some individuals that come from communities that aren't as accepting. And, you know, one of the things I talk with families about sometimes is the coming in and coming out process.
And what I mean by that is, The, the coming out process is typically an individual that's been questioning their gender or, you know, sexual orientation or things like that. They've been thinking about that for a long time. Um, that, you know, they, they've been thinking about how do I go about telling people?
Do I want to tell people? Um, what will their reactions be and and then when they tell their their family or other people There can be that strong, you know responsive. Oh, no, that's not okay Like no child of mine is gonna you know that kind of stuff and and I [00:12:00] have to help the kids that I work with understand like You've been processing this for months to years.
And now you're expecting your parents just to hear that and be like, Okay, great. Um, and, and a lot of times that's really hard. So that's their coming in process. They have to process that and understand that. And I really go through and try to help parents understand the greeting process that they're going to experience.
Okay, what does this mean about what, what I'd hoped my child would do and like or what their relationships will look like? Um, I think a lot of times it's helping them understand, okay, you are going to have people in the community that, that might not be accepting of this. Is, is the love of your child, is that more important than acceptance of a neighbor?
Um, and, and, and sometimes I've had parents that have said, no, like the acceptance of my community is more important. And [00:13:00] really what that boils down to oftentimes is just fear. I'm just afraid. I don't know what this is like. And I think one of the hard parts is sometimes parents can then just be like, oh, this is just a phase.
Like, you'll grow out of it, like, you know, this, you know, I'll hear some parents say, oh, this is just trendy, like, everybody's questioning their gender now. And it's like, mm, you know, there's a difference between someone who, okay, this person's questioning it and, and someone who really is like, no, I, I haven't felt like I'm in the right body.
Um, and even if someone is questioning it, great, let's question it, let's, let's look at it and understand. You know, do, do I feel like I meet the stereotypical roles of a male or a female, or I don't really like the idea of gender in general. And so I feel much more non binary or non conforming, um, and, and so I think that that's one of the things that can be [00:14:00] confusing for individuals is.
Like when we use, you know, someone says I want to use they them pronoun. It's like why? I remember, you know, initially that was a hard thing for people because grammatically it didn't make sense Like and it was like, okay, really? Like were we gonna be the grammar police? Is that what this is about? Really?
What what the individual saying is? Hey Having you see him or she her doesn't doesn't feel right. I don't feel like that connects with who I am And so, you know, they, them allows me a little bit more space to be like, yeah, you know, I, that kind of shifting, you know, maybe my gender is a little bit more fluid and sometimes I feel more vascular and sometimes I feel more feminine.
Um, and, and so, uh, the, they, them helps me feel like it captures that's one of the things that can be hard is for some people when they're talking about their pronouns. It, it just, [00:15:00] people are just old school, in a sense, like, no, boys are boys and girls are girls. And it, it really is challenging, you know, um, the, the, the different ideas that, no, we don't have to have these stereotypical roles.
Brenda: Yeah, that's, that's super helpful because I do hear from other, from parents who have kids who are either, you know, they're in some way or another, non binary. gender conforming and it's very confusing if they're dating somebody who is maybe a they. You know, and they're like, I don't want to offend somebody, but I don't know how to talk about this.
And so I think there's, there's a lot of, um, angst about, I, I don't want to be offensive, but I don't know how to use a they pronoun in a, as I greet somebody, you know what I mean? So, and I guess we should just say, listen, I'm old. I don't [00:16:00] understand this. Help me understand. Is that kind of the best approach if you're, if you're confused as a parent?
Matt: Yeah, I don't think you even need to Put the precursor that i'm old and I don't understand. It's just simply being able to say You know, what are your pronouns and if they say they them? Oh, can you help me understand why that? The majority of individuals tend to be pretty accepting and, oh, okay, or if you screw up on the pronoun and use the wrong pronoun, catch yourself.
You don't have to go through and explain, like, why. It's just like, oh, my bad. Most people are pretty easy going with that. Yeah.
Brenda: It's, um, it is, I think we have to get over our own awkwardness, you know, at times of understanding that, but I, I like the idea of just saying kind of like, well, what does that mean to you?
Or help me understand. I think help me understand is a great way to always, um, try to connect with somebody and show that you truly are interested and you're not [00:17:00] trying to just force something on
Matt: them. Yeah. Just being curious. That's, I mean, that, that's the. That's the biggest piece. I, you know, I, I encourage my families a lot of times.
They're like, Matt, we don't know how to talk to our kid about this topic or about this thing. Just be curious. Ask. If it, if it doesn't make sense, just say, I don't get that. Can you help, help me better understand that? I think sometimes, I'll see kids that will get frustrated though, because they don't even know.
I had a kid just, uh, the other day say, like, sometimes I'm confused and I don't know what, why I feel this way, I just feel it. And, and so it's hard for me to explain that, and when you keep asking me. Um, that makes me more upset and, you know, just being able to hear, okay, yeah, this is a confusing time.
Adolescence is a confusing time. Yeah.
Brenda: Well, and, and then you layer on, you know, we, a lot of the parents listening, most of the parents listening, um, to HopeStream have kids struggling with substance use. So I, I just imagine the sort [00:18:00] of like growing snowball of adolescence, which is a confusing time. Maybe you're questioning your your gender, your identity, your sexual orientation.
That's another layer on the snowball. Then you add on substances. So talk about that a little bit and what you see walking through your doors and the students that you're working with when you when you combine that perfect storm of stress and confusion.
Matt: Yeah, well, it's gotten even more complicated because different states and the laws regarding marijuana use So I have a lot of kids that will come in and when I talk about drugs and sobriety and things like that They're like, yeah, I want to be sober, but I plan on smoking pot when I'm home and it's like, oh, okay Marijuana almost has been kind of put into a whole different category now because it's legal in my state or I can give my medical, you know, marijuana card or different things [00:19:00] like that.
I mean, so a lot of times I'll have a kid say, Oh, I'm going to be sober till I'm 18, but then at 18, I'm unused. And it's like... Yeah, at 18 you can get a card or you can do certain things, but your brain is still developing and, and, you know, often it's into your mid twenties before your brain is really going to be fully developed, like You want to use marijuana, that's your choice, but, but let your brain fully develop, you know, often times there's an emotional delay when, when kids start using and, and they get stuck at that age when they started using.
So, they might be 30 now, but they act like a 12 year old because that's when they started smoking pot. Right.
Brenda: Yeah, I've heard that. I was going to ask you that because I have heard that you're basically, um, and I saw some of this with my son, like, People are sort of at the age where they started using.
Does that, does that pretty much align?
Matt: [00:20:00] Yeah, yeah. You know, just having worked with a lot of individuals over the years, and someone will say you're acting like, in whatever age, typically the age that they get is when that individual started using, you know. You're acting like a teenager and this is someone that's in their 40s or 50s type of thing.
Well, because that's, that's when emotionally that there was that pause because their brain just got stuck and they didn't allow, you know, their, their body and their brain to experience things without the influence of substances. So, I'll, I'll see that sometimes with kids when they come in. Like they're a completely different kid after a couple of months because they've been able to get all the drugs out of their system and, and their brains kind of getting back online and, and doing what it needs to do.
You know, parents are like, I just don't want my kids doing hard drugs or I'll hear kids say that, like, I'm not going to do hard drugs. You know, one of the hard parts is. Fentanyl has become such a main [00:21:00] drug and it has been laced in, in so much stuff that overdoses have, uh, tripled in the last two decades, um, due to opiates.
morphine and fentanyl. The drugs kids are using now, even the marijuana kids are smoking now, isn't the same that, that, you know, parents were. It's not as easy to go, oh, you know, when I was young I did that, it's not that big of a deal. They're smoking different stuff, you know, they're wax pens, dab, they're smoking pure THC, you know, 90 percent type of thing, and that really does a number on their brain.
So it's not just like, you know, hitting the joint in the bathroom and, right.
Brenda: Yeah, it's a completely different product. Is that sort of the main, um, the high potency THC products? Is that sort of, uh, the primary substance? Young people are coming in because you guys are up to 18 years old. Is that [00:22:00] correct?
Is that, is that what you're seeing mostly or what's, what's the substance kind of, um, milieu that you're looking at?
Matt: I mean, it varies quite a bit. Um, you know, oftentimes though, marijuana or. Pure, pure THC is, is what kids are using most frequently. Um, but we do have the kids that are, you know, gotten into the methamphetamines, uh, or cocaine.
Occasionally we'll have someone who's, you know, been using heroin. Usually if, if they're doing something like that, they're going to need a, a stronger medical intervention initially, um, just to help with the withdrawals and all of that.
Brenda: Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty frightening. And we just try, we just keep trying to give that message to parents that if, if you're looking at it and saying, well, I'd rather have them doing, you know, smoking weed than X, Y, Z, it's not.
Just weed. It [00:23:00] is a completely... I feel like we just need a new name for it. But anyway, um, like let's rebrand it. Uh, I, I just, you know, I think about all the kids that the, um, the parents that we work with, what they're dealing with. And we know that, you know, the substance really isn't the problem. It's the solution.
And I have to imagine that if you're a young person who, even if you do live in a coastal area where... You know, gender is really not quote unquote that big of a deal. There's just got to be a lot of internal confusion. Um, and that substances would be a really good way to sort of quiet that, that voice or to help, like you said, that, that coming in and coming out process.
One of the
Matt: things that often I'm dealing with this trauma, um, you know, one of my specialties is ADHD and executive functioning. I remember I was at a conference and someone talked to me about EMDR and [00:24:00] EMDR stands for eye movement desensitization reprocess. And it's a specific type of trauma therapy.
And I was kind of like, Oh, why, why would you be doing that with kids with ADHD? And they're like, Oh, are you serious? Like there's so much trauma with kids with ADHD. And so that kind of got me into the trauma field as well. Roughly 60 percent of the individuals have all experienced an adverse childhood experience.
Gender, obviously, or sexual orientation, if you grew up in a community where, you know, people are making jokes about being gay or, or, you know, using crude language or things like that. You know, slurs, that can be really hard to feel like it's okay to, to be who I am. We have the kids here and they're able to stay away from substances, so we're working on the detox and all of that.
But we can then get in and start to work on the trauma. Uh, and, and really go in and explore these childhood [00:25:00] experiences or past experiences that, that really have had an impact on how they view themselves or how they view the world. So a lot of times, You know, when I get in and start talking about, you know, Hey, let's go back.
And it's a intervention called a flow back. And we'll talk about, I want you to tell me like this thing that's bothering you. Right. And, and they'll be like, Oh, I'm really upset with this kid on my team. That's doing this. You know, they made this joke and made me upset and I'll do this. Okay. Let's float back to another time when you felt like that.
And, and they'll just keep floating back to these past memories, like, Oh, I remember one time when my dad sent this, or I remember one time when I came home from school, you know, and my teacher had told me this thing. And, and being able to just touch on those different memories helps them start to be able to connect the dots and understand, like, Okay, this is how the world was or how the society or environment you're being raised in is It doesn't mean that [00:26:00] that's who you are and so they're able to then go through and go Okay, like I can separate myself from what happened and not own that because I think that that oftentimes is what What leads to the substance use is they're just trying to escape themselves because they feel like all these things that have happened to them are who they are.
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Are there things that, just based on all the insight that you have from these conversations, are there [00:28:00] things that parents might be doing or saying in just sort of the course of the day to day that could be unintentionally... insensitive or could be coming across to their child and maybe they, maybe the parents don't even know that the child's questioning anything, but are there some of those insensitivities that we could be, you know, signaling that we don't even know about?
You
Matt: know, part of what we do here, um, is DBT, which stands for dialectical behavioral therapy. And, and, and part of that is being able to understand that there can be multiple truths at the same time. And, and getting out of that all or nothing kind of black and white thinking that it's either I'm right or I'm wrong.
Um, and I think that that is where some insensitivity can kind of come into play. Like, this is the right way to do things, like. Versus, oh there, there can be multiple ways of doing it. Um, when I was in graduate [00:29:00] school I learned this awesome term called Equifinality. Which means that there are multiple ways to get to the same destination.
Um, and it was really helpful because often times we, okay here's what we need to do and this is what the client needs to focus on. And what I learned was, there are lots of different ways that a client can get from point A to point B and not just this one linear path that, you know, so often I, people think that this is what needs to happen.
And I think that that's really where parents can get caught up is, well this is what my family did, this is what I was raised to do, so this is the only way to do it. And not being able to take a step back and go, Wait, is this really the only way to do it? Is my way of thinking the only way there is? I can see it from a different point of view.
You know, I've got a teenage son who likes to challenge me. Um, and, and a lot of times, You know, he'll, he'll make some pretty good points and it's like, [00:30:00] Okay, you're right. If you want to do it that way, that's fine if you do that, but I think in terms of, you know, the insensitivity with parents, it's, it's not being able to recognize the emotion that's going on with the kid and instead it's getting caught up in the details.
So a lot of times it's, I'm going to argue with you about the details instead of taking the time to take a step back and hear what you're really saying. What I hear you saying is you're upset because you don't feel like anyone's listening to you. Well, me coming in and trying to tell you what you need to do is just reinforcing that no one's listening to you and instead, I'm going to stop and hear the emotion that's going on.
That's got to really stink that, you know, you don't feel like anyone's listening to you right now. Tell me more about that. And that's where that curiosity comes into play. Yeah.
Brenda: I like that. Um, the focusing on the emotion over the details, cause you're right. I think we do tend to get very detail oriented and we want to know all the little, you know, the, this or [00:31:00] that, or did you do this or didn't you do that?
And we're not seeing, and I have to imagine, especially for a young person who's struggling or questioning identity. That there's so much emotion under there. What are some of the things that a young person might be struggling with or questions they might be asking themselves or emotions they might be feeling under the surface that we're not seeing as a parent?
Are there things that we could kind of look for or that we should know might be going on that we're not seeing?
Matt: Some of the things that I think happen are, are, are just little things like a shift in, in their clothing style or their hairstyle. Not that, that anyone, a parent is like intending to hurt their child, but, but, you know, a child brings an outfit out and it's, it's different than what they're used to, and the parent's like, oh, like, I don't really like that.
Like that's, that one doesn't look as cute or, you know, and, and then really what the child's trying to say is like, Hey, look, I'm trying to [00:32:00] like explore who I am. And, and the parent unknowingly kind of just puts a big old wet blanket on that. So, so sometimes kids are just, they're, they're going to put feelers out there and it's being able to just recognize that.
Okay. You know, if a child has a conversation with you about what it's like. You know, if I came home with a girlfriend instead of a boyfriend, or what it would be like, you know, if I didn't date anyone, um, maybe they're feeling a little bit more androgynous or asexual, um, and so that, that I think is where parents just need to be able to really be listening to what the kid is trying to say, instead of just being kind of On autopilot, um, I think that happens a lot.
Oh, uh huh. Okay, honey, you know instead of like Alright, how come, how come you want to pick this out and like, help me understand that? Like, that seems different than what you normally like, [00:33:00] but not doing it in a judgmental way, just more in a curious way.
Brenda: Yeah. Yeah. Curious, curious versus judgmental. And a lot of times I feel like that comes in the tone of voice that you're asking in.
Um, you know, and like you said, being really tuned in and not being the, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, being dismissive, like, oh, this is like. I don't know. They're on Tik Tok all day watching this stuff. It's probably just a fad. Um, I don't know the percentage you might, but I feel like even in a city like Seattle where, you know, we, we have everything, we see everything.
I just don't feel like it's a fad. widespread enough that it's really something that would be considered a fad. You know what I mean? Like, I still feel like the majority of the world is fairly straight, fairly cisgender. Like, I don't think if you're a 14 year old, life's hard enough as it is. It feels like if you're young and, and really exploring this and you're willing [00:34:00] to dress in a different way or present yourself in a different way, that's pretty brave, I feel like.
Matt: Absolutely. You know, I was at a GEMS conference, um, a few years ago and, and I remember the individuals talking about the fact that if you go back to like when you were in junior high, like you were so worried, do I have the right outfit on, you know, or people looking at me, Oh my gosh, do people notice that zit type of thing for someone to be able to want to go to school wearing a dress.
If they're You know, a male or, you know, wearing more masking clothes. It's a female, like that, that takes a lot of guts and, and bravery. And in most people aren't going to do something like that because it's already hard enough as it is. And so it's being able to recognize the courage that that individual has that they're willing to take that.[00:35:00]
And, and, and I think that's the important part for a parent to be able to recognize that rather than being upset and angry. It's like, okay, I want to know why, why, why you want to do this? Like help me better understand this. Um, and I think that that can be hard sometimes. Is it's like I hear from parents quite a bit like I just don't want the world to be harder for my child And if they do this, it's gonna be harder and it's like you're right It is but the reality is is if they aren't able to do this right now It's gonna be harder because stuff like suicide is gonna take over Like, your child's struggling already with how they feel about themselves.
If they don't feel like there's support in the family system or in the general community, that's going to be even harder, which is going to increase the chances of suicide.
Brenda: Right. Well, suicide and continued substance use because those are, yeah, it, [00:36:00] I love that you said that because I think we do, again, it's that black and white thinking.
We think, oh, the world's going to be so much harder for them. And yes, in some ways it will. And in some ways it will be so much more freeing. I would imagine to be able to be who you are, express yourself how you want to express yourself. Um, but I do think that, you know, these, if you're a teenager, you still, I think it's, it's the same as it was when, when I was younger, which is, I want to fit in with everybody else.
But I also kind of want to stand out a little bit, like, in my own way. So it's that, it's that juxtaposition of like, Oh, I don't want to stand out, but I kind of want to be a little unique. But I don't think that anybody, um, and I could be wrong, but I think for the majority of kids, just watching Tik Tok videos or just watching YouTube is not going to like all of a sudden, Oh, I'm going to change my gender.
That, that seems like a pretty big leap to me. Right,
Matt: and, [00:37:00] and I think the biggest thing in terms of like, something parents can do, like a takeaway, um, couple real simple things, one, have conversations with your kid. If they're watching Tik Tok or, or, you know, they're on social media all the time, talk to them about it.
Be curious. Um, I think that that's one of the things where it can get dangerous is if kids just look at Tik Tok as. This is the Bible of information. Yes. Yeah. And, and so it's being able to take a step back and go, okay, yeah, this is what this kid is saying, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that represents everyone.
Um, so being able to have conversations about that, uh, the Trevor project, um, in their research talked about the fact that using the preferred name and preferred pronouns. Can reduce substance use and suicidality by [00:38:00] 50 percent 50 percent and just being able to use the preferred name or preferred pronouns.
That's so huge. And, and, you know, so oftentimes I think. Parents will get stuck on that. Like, no, I had a boy, you know, I'm not going to use she, her, they, them. If using that is going to make a difference between your child potentially taking their life or not, or getting into, you know, significant substance use.
I would just quit the pros and cons and kind of look at it and be like, okay, yeah.
Brenda: I remember looking for treatment for a child who did not have any gender issues like that wasn't part of our equation. I have to imagine that that's an added layer of complexity when you are looking if you're like, okay, I I think we're not going to be able to manage this at home, especially.
So if you're looking for a residential type program, what are some of the key things that you need to be [00:39:00] either looking for or asking about or thinking? Because I would imagine you, you want to be pretty careful about where you place your child so that it is a safe place, that it is an inclusive place.
And it's not just like. a word on the website that's like, oh, we checked that box. Um, what, what do, what do parents really need to know about that?
Matt: You know, I think a big thing is, is looking at the milieu. What is the community like? And understanding your child in terms of who they work with. If somebody's on the spectrum, they're going to need a different milieu and community than someone who's, you know, not on the spectrum, you know, if, if gender or, or things like that, you're going to want to look for someone that's inclusive.
Um, and gender affirming rather than, like you said, just, just a word. So, you know, what, what types of groups do you have, you know, can, can my child be on the dorm that they identify on, or do they have to be on the [00:40:00] dorm that they're biologically looking at other things, you know, do, is it going to be better if it's a single gender type program?
Or, you know, co ed type program, you know, the understand, um, is my child going to do better with something that's a little bit more rigorous with academics or, you know, the focus is more on the emotion or relationship building than the academics. Or are we looking for something that is a good balance of.
They, they need to still understand how to do school and all of that. Um, you know, substance use is a huge component as well. If that's a predominant thing, are we getting in there and looking for just getting stabilization? Or are we looking for someone where we're going to do long term, you know, care?
What is their approach? Do they use a 12 step approach? Rational recovery? There are some programs that are going to be more relationship based, and, and that's going to be really what the kid needs. And [00:41:00] there are going to be other programs that are going to be much more behavioral based. And sometimes that's what the kid needs, is just, hey, this isn't okay.
And, and the, the rules are very clear cut.
Brenda: Yeah, I was going to ask, what is the difference between, because I hear that and I don't honestly know the, a difference when I hear a relationship based model versus a behavioral based model. What does that mean? Relationship
Matt: based is more that they're, they're, we're focusing on.
on relationships and, you know, understanding kind of the interactions between you and the people around you. So we're going to help role model what effective relationships look like with your peers and with staff, and then helping translate that as this is what it looks like with your siblings or with your parent.
A behavior model is going to be more like we're just teaching you basics like. Hey, if you do X, the, the result is Y, um, [00:42:00] and, and it's just repetition with that type of stuff. So, I mean, there's still relationship components to that, but it's going to be much more focused on kind of consequences and, and, you know, if you do this, then, then here are the positive consequences of it.
Is
Brenda: there either a question you get asked all the time or a myth that you see being sort of perpetuated or not being cleared up that you would like to address if you were sitting in front of. 1500 people, especially around this issue of gender and identity and all of that. Is there something that you would just want to like clear up once and for all?
Matt: The biggest piece is you've got to be able to see your child or the individual as the individual or your child and not as a label or a specific gender. And so, I, I remember when I, we first started [00:43:00] working with gender non conforming and things like that, and transgender. Uh, I had someone come in and ask me like, how do you do it?
And I remember I just said, I do it the same way I do it with all my other kids. I respect them, I listen to them, I validate, I, I understand who they are as a person. This is just a component of who they are. This doesn't mean that this is everything. And I think that sometimes that can get lost that this individual is still a person with emotions and thoughts and feelings, and, and it's not just.
I love that.
Brenda: I think that is a perfect way to wrap up the conversation. So important. It's the thing we should always start with is always seeing our kids for who they are and not these elements. So thank you, Matt, so much for clearing up a bunch of stuff. For us, um, for helping us understand how we can be better and we can be more, you know, [00:44:00] sensitive and inclusive as parents.
And I think most of all, what I picked up is just really lead with that curiosity and
Matt: see what you can learn. Absolutely. And if you make a mistake, just own it and move forward. Exactly.
Brenda: Exactly. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here.
Matt: You're welcome. My pleasure.
Brenda: Okay, my friend, that is it for today.
Remember, you can find all the guest information and resources we talked about in the show notes and those are at brendazane. com forward slash podcast. We also have some playlists there that we created for you, like the top 10 episodes, coaching episodes, recovery stories, all the good stuff. And if you haven't already, you may want to download a free ebook I wrote called hindsight.
Three Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Misusing Drugs, it'll give you some insight as to why your child might be doing what they are, and importantly, it gives you tips on how to [00:45:00] cope and how to be more healthy through the rough times. You can download that free from brendazane. com forward slash hindsight.
Thank you so much for listening. Stay strong and be very, very good to yourself. And I will meet you right back here next week.