The Pivotal Roles of Identity and Self-Worth in Addiction & Recovery, with Matt Elliott
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Guests: Matthew Elliott
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About this episode:
I’ve been reminded of something over the past few months: Stories of hope are all around us, even if we don’t hear them. I was recently contacted by today’s guest, Matt Elliott, a client of mine from my life in the corporate world. Until he got in touch, I hadn’t seen or spoken to Matt in five years. I had no idea that he had his own recovery story to share - and it was quite a story!
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Brenda
You're listening to Hopestream. The place for those parenting teens and young adults who are misusing drugs and alcohol in a treatment program or working their way toward recovery. It's your private space to learn and to gain encouragement and understanding for me. Your host, Brenda Zane, and fellow parent to a child who struggled. And I'm so glad you're here to learn more about all the resources available to you besides a podcast, please head over to HopeStreamCommunity.org.
Welcome to the second week of Recovery Month, where we are focusing all of this September podcast around stories of recovery and healing and highlighting the incredible opportunities and possibilities available to our kids. When they do find their way out of the struggles they're experiencing. And strangely, we have linked in two things for today's episode.
I am really bad about updating LinkedIn, but I did post about our Year of Hope Giving campaign a couple of weeks ago and a former colleague who I work with back in 2016 and 17 saw it and started poking around about what I am up to now. He reached out after reading about Hope Stream Community and how we help parents of young people struggling with substance abuse and mental health.
And he wanted to fill me in on something I didn't know about him when he was my client. What I did know was that he was an amazing director of marketing for a high end knife brand that my agency was doing work for. And what I did not know was that he is in long term recovery from drug addiction.
00;01;58;07
Brenda
Likewise, what met my guest today, did not know about me, was that I was in the dark depth of my son's addiction to substances and a high risk lifestyle. Literally bracing myself every day for the phone call from jail or the hospital or a random stranger that something horrific had happened to my boy. Matt didn't know that I would be sitting in meetings in his office in Oregon City, Oregon, getting ready to present a new creative concept or a media plan on zero sleep.
And with so much anxiety and brain fog, it is a miracle he didn't fire me. But since we worked together, Matt has gone on to complete his MBA and he is now the chief commercial officer for Workshop. He's the strategic leader of all customer facing verticals, including marketing, sales, customer service, brand and product management. He's accountable for organizing the business to efficiently deliver revenue and to drive long term brand equity and consumer satisfaction across workshops, entire family of brands.
I think if you're listening and if you have a child who isn't doing well right now, just hearing what Matt is doing today should lift your spirits at least a little. You're going to hear what the true genesis of Matt's journey was substances was how he began to take on an identity that at a very young age that became absolutely everything to him.
And you'll understand why it seemed impossible for him to quit using spoiler alert. It wasn't the withdrawals. It's an incredible story that starts with Matt in elementary school feeling unlikable, unworthy, traumatized by being bullied, and his story takes a drastic turn. When he was lucky enough, as he says, to get a DUI while he was flunking out of college.
00;03;50;13
Brenda
I cannot think, Matt, enough for being vulnerable and sharing this story with us. So listen now to Matt Elliott's astounding recovery story. Enjoy.
Hey, Matt. Welcome to Hope Stream. This is so awesome to be on with you. I'm still kind of shaking my head about it, but it's so great to have you here. And thanks for taking the time.
00;04;20;29
Matt
You're so welcome. Thanks for giving me the opportunity.
00;04;24;13
Brenda
I think it's so interesting. And we were just talking about this that sort of people weave through your life right at different times. And we work together in a previous life, a very different life for me because I'm now doing something totally different. You have just continued to climb and climb the the ladder and doing incredible things, which I knew you were going to do when we were working together.
I knew there is big stuff in your future, so this is really exciting and I just am so amazed at people like you who have a 180 isn't even the right description, but is the only one I can think of with your life. And so we'll get into all of that. But just excited to talk with you.
00;05;10;09
Matt
Yes, I'm just thrilled. And I. I would guess that you, too. I mean, we wouldn't have had a reason to really share each other stories with each other when we were working together in that professional sense in our past. And I was really just a thrill to see where you where you have landed and the work you're doing, but also thrilled that I caught that LinkedIn post and had an opportunity to reach out and say, you know, we have a similar story on different sides of the coin.
00;05;38;06
Brenda
Yes. Yes, I know. It's you never know how you're going to reconnect with people, but I'm glad that we did. Why don't you just give us a description of what life looks like today for you, all the stuff that you have going on. And then we'll do a little bit of a rewind and and take a step back in time.
How does that sound?
00;05;58;25
Matt
Yeah, that sounds good. Today, I have a wonderful family, a beautiful relationship with my sisters. Two steps and one biological. My mother, my father, and their chosen partners. They're not together, Married anymore. I have an amazing wife and a beautiful little son. I'm the on the work side. I'm the chief commercial officer for a for a very successful, mid-sized family owned and operated business, employs hundreds of people worldwide, but 100 people in southern Oregon where we live.
We've got a you know, we've got a nice house in this community and a nice, nice church community. And just like, yeah, life is beautiful.
00;06;53;28
Brenda
Sounds beautiful, but I know it wasn't always like that. And I'm guessing a while back you probably would not have looked into a crystal ball and seen this for yourself. Is that is that an accurate description?
00;07;09;26
Matt
Yeah, it depends how far back in time we go through issues. But I know that. I know that. I know how far back we're going. So there was a time in my life, I think, you know, when we were talking about me as a really just a child and and young adult, which is really like the hardships that I put myself and my family through.
So, like, I was so self-absorbed, I don't even think a crystal ball would have been something I thought about. You know, like everything was just I don't know that I could see out beyond the end of my nose, including the impacts of my actions on the world around me. I was so hurt and so scared and so lonely that I really was just trying to give that little kid hug for a long time.
00;08;01;01
Brenda
Yeah. If you go back, like, if we were looking to find the first chapter in this part of your book, what chapter would we go back to? Like, where would you start telling this story?
00;08;15;21
Matt
I would start with a broken home with two parents who weren't on the same page, who loved each other, but didn't really like each other. There probably was a moment in time as a child where I spilled a glass of milk and my dad just, you know, yelled at me and made me feel like I was worthless for, you know, as a three year old for spilling a glass of milk.
And I want to be clear, like we're talking about the past here. My dad's, it's just become is a wonderful man. So he was damaged, too, and hurt. You know, this is generational trauma stuff. So we've since done a lot. He's different, man. So working mom and dad who weren't really around emotionally for us. Take us to sporting events and whatever you know we're involved in.
And they went through the motions. My mom's a minister at the time was a minister of a fairly significant congregation, 350, 400 members. You know, she had a lot of children, if you will, to worker care and to and didn't I don't think didn't leave as much emotional capacity for us. We were latchkey kids, my sister and I, and I'm really fought for me in the early elementary school system.
I got bullied a lot. I know we don't have a lot of money. Other kids got Reebok comps. I wear Spaulding pumps. Kids would beat me up for my clothing. I was traumatized on the on the playground. Other kids around me were traumatized by how much I was being beat up. You know, they were coming home scared because of what was happening to me.
00;09;56;16
Matt
I had had some pretty severe experiences with things that the administration and the primary school was trying to do, like putting troubled kids together with more gifted kids. I was smart, you know, smart, gifted, creative, friendly. But they would put us together with the county, grew up in Wilsonville as very strange zoning. So we had just as also a pardon story like there was nice subdivisions like when I grew up in Bolton in the next government assisted housing.
And so we had a pretty broad, a mix of kids from all backgrounds. So, you know, like I got stabbed in fourth grade by a fifth grader.
Just really, you know, violence going on, all sorts of things. And my mom was furious. You know, it's like really trying to do something about it. And she tells a story. I want to be clear, like she was not around as much as maybe some other moms or dads would have been. And they had a tumultuous relationship and the house was thick with resentment and all.
But they they loved us and cared about us, you know, And and she tells the story about like I had a great kindergarten, first grade experience, second, third and fourth grade. The teachers were just a mess. That fourth grade, I was a part of that experimental program and fifth grade. There was this one teacher who was amazing, and my mom went to the administration and said to the vice principal and said, I want Matthew to be in Mr. Kerry class.
00;11;32;13
Matt
And the vice principal said, well, you know, there's these other kids and they really are having a hard time. And, you know, they don't come from the hole that he does. And he rang me, you know, my mom said, no, you know, he's had he has had enough second, third, fourth grade. This has not been okay. And finally she says to him, she tells a story better than me.
But she says she says, listen, whatever this person's name is, she said, if you don't agree to this, I will go to the I will be it. And, you know, like whoever the administrator is for the school district and if this administrator for the school district doesn't agree to this, I will go to the school board. And three of the five members of the school board are members of my church and I will get what I want.
And HAYES And he yeah, and.
00;12;19;21
Brenda
Mama Bear.
00;12;20;24
Matt
Sort of like set. He sort of like slid his seat back and was quiet for a minute and then looked up at her and said, you know, you're right. Matthew deserves to have a good experience. This. So she's yeah, she's, she's a fighter. So I don't want it to sound like she did anything wrong. You know, we're just all, as my mom likes to say, bozos on this bus.
So we just do the best job we can.
00;12;45;08
Brenda
Do. You do? Well, bless her heart. I love I love to hear that because I think at some point that Mama Bear does kind of rear up when when you see your little one getting unjust treatment. So that's that's pretty cool. So the started really young as far as being traumatized, having some very scary things happening, not feeling a whole lot of worth.
When did substances enter the picture as obviously a coping mechanism, I would assume for for some of these feelings. But what do you recall from from the standpoint of of how that took place?
00;13;26;09
Matt
That's starting in fifth grade. I remember and Skip, I had I don't know if I pretended to be sick, you know, or whatever that day, but I was watching an episode of like Perry Mason or Matlock or something, you know, in our public television that we were only allowed to have who couldn't have cable. I wasn't allowed to play with G.I. Joes, you know, like, I mean, like a lot of that stuff.
She was protective of my experience. I, I, I and somebody was smoking a cigaret and I was like, Oh, that looks cool, you know? So I went out to the desert grouse and I went out to the construction zone because we lived in a start of a subdivision and I found half smoked cigaret and smoked a cigaret. You know, it's like that that is that I remember that moment and that's the moment I like was willing to experiment with something that was not natural.
Being in my system. That was not the but but then fast forward. So the willingness was there, you know, like that to explore, experiment, that kind of thing was like, is that cool or not cool? Because cool is important to me. You know, when you're a kid, like cool is everything. And I was not cool. So sixth grade starts and I remember I was wearing this pair of blue outside.
I said my mom would only give me the Spalding poncho, and I was wearing this pair of blue sweat shorts and this blue shirt with its lion hat on it. And I got called the front of the class to do something, and I made it halfway to the front of the class. And this kid, who later ended up being a very good friend of mine, got up and pantsed me in front of the class.
00;14;59;10
Matt
You know, this was like the first second day of first week or something in sixth grade. And I went home. I said, Mom, I need you to take me to the store. I'm I'm very gifted with social skills. Like just I don't it's not because of anything I did, you know, I was just like, we don't deserve these things.
We just are born with them. I'm I'm grateful for that. I served me well in my life. And this moment, it's also served me poorly inside, you know, through this journey. But but I somebody you take me to Nordstrom and I need to get some call. I need to know for your shirts. I need some cool jeans. I need some cool shoes.
Like, I know how to unlock this and I can start now. And so, you know, like, like a good mom would say, okay, like, let's go. So she takes me, I get all these cool clothes. I show up the next day in school. Sixth graders are so simple, you know, I like I show up the next day and I got cool clothes and ice and I, like, just start using bad words.
And all of a sudden it was like, switch show change. So like, this guy Matt is cool.
00;16;08;02
Brenda
New You identity on board.
00;16;10;21
Matt
I mean on on board, you know and I also have attention deficit disorder which is an important component of this story so and I was treated for that and like the early pretty early experimental stages would have been like, oh, sixth grade would have been like 1990. Yeah, like on the front end, Ritalin was the primary treatment time, like I said, is important part of the story, the weird zoning.
And we got kind of like the the more hood is the wrong word for it. But you know like the more government assisted lower income next to our place. So we're like, hang out with kids from the projects basically. Like what our version in the West Coast is in the projects. And they had I remember I had Ritalin, you know, and I was hanging out these kids and, you know, saying bad words, wearing cool clothes.
And somehow it came up. One of the kids was like, oh, you have, you know, Ritalin. Can we can we buy that from you? And I never like, what do you want to buy it?
00;17;09;17
Brenda
You want my medicine?
00;17;10;28
Matt
Why would you want this? I didn't, you know, think about the fact that was amphetamines. Right? Right. Basically, you know, prescription cross tops or whatever. And it's like, sure, you know, like five bucks a pill. Wow, That's great. You know, like, that's cool money. And then they started. That's really the moment that triggered me into thinking like, okay, through what I was desperate for.
Brand that was community. Like that sense of cool, that sense of belonging to recover from that trauma in some way through primary school and through my parents just not being around. And in that moment I realize, here's another way to kind of get my books and people like they're interested in me. I don't care. It's they're interested in me as a person.
They're interested in me off my clothes. That's fine, because I'm not worthy as a person. So maybe through this, like the clothes that selling the Ritalin through whatever I can, I can I can be something that I'm I can I can have meaning in this world. I can have a reputation.
00;18;03;11
Brenda
That makes total sense. And you know what? I have heard this story. I'm I'm thinking I'm almost like I'm having déja vu because I have heard this story from so many people. It wasn't like, oh, you know, I decided to go sell drugs. It was this realization that there are things that make you cool. And being cool, especially at that age, is number one important.
00;18;34;03
Matt
Number.
00;18;34;12
Brenda
One, Number one. So now you're selling your your ADHD, your A.D.D. medication for $5 a pill. You got the cool clothes.
00;18;46;14
Matt
And with the kids little now that want to buy the 80 medications so you know they smoke pot. Yeah. You know so I'm like, oh, you know, pot. Cool. I'm smoking cigarets. Remember, I'm still my dad's beer a little bit. My buddy is in the sixth grade, seventh grade. The neighborhood kids. I was hanging out with them. Sure.
Like, okay, I'll, you know, would you you know, could we smoke weed sometime? Like, what's that like? Yeah. So then ten, like, like, start smoking pot string in my dad's beer. You know, I still have, like, amassing friend groups in the popular crowd. The I was a skinny little guy, but, you know, like hanging out with the also because of the, like the cool factor and the drugs or whatever you know the edge hung out with the more popular kind of traditionally good looking cool clothes kids and one of them was total latchkey kid.
Also, his mom was just not really aware of what was going on. We started having parties at his house, you know, with all of our girlfriends and friends. And I remember I would steal my dad's alcohol like everything from he was a wine connoisseur. So sometimes my poor dad, Oh, we probably would steal, like, bottles of wine worth hundreds of dollars and just drink them out of the bottles.
No idea. You doing? Yeah, I would. And I would put it in my backpack and I would ride across town, and I was the guy who had access to the booze. So I would show up with the half gallon, mostly like I was willing to get in trouble for it because my dad would find out and he would be furious.
00;20;19;14
Matt
But I was I was fine with that because it was worth it to me to be the guy with the booze. And I was a good student still like I did well in middle school. It wasn't really till my freshman year that things started really to come off the rails because that's a whole nother. Okay, now, now there's like in middle school.
In middle school, you can crack the code in high school like they're seniors and juniors. They're if you're like a kind of a scrub of the kid, like you're not going to get any respect from them. So even if your friends giving you respect, all of a sudden all the girls that were in your friend group are now interested in the senior guys, not you.
I really started to fall in with more of the alternative crowd. I was percussionist, I was a skater. I really into bored sports and back then alternative sports weren't celebrated. It was a total counterculture like you were. It was criminal to skate. And then I loved it. My grandparents from my first skateboard as a little kid. And I mean, like it it actually served me well into my later years, the extreme sports and whatnot.
But for me, it was like I was just kind of on the fringe at that point. I wasn't in with the jocks anymore, and even though my ideas were jocks, they were all freshmen. Like, like maybe they get some respect because they can play ball. But I'm not getting respect because I'm on the periphery. So so I started leaning in more with this crowd of kids who are goth and skaters and just kind of like the kids who get stepped on, boys who would wear dresses to school.
00;21;43;18
Matt
You know, we didn't care whatever, wear a dress to school, just see just so you get called a fag. So some you know, so you can like stand up in the face of some stupid jock, you know, like that kind of stuff, like total rebel stuff. And those kids, like, we smoked. We started all the way more weed.
And I. I remember the next thing I tried was mushrooms, and it was just right across the street from the high school, an apartment building. These kids, it was kind of no, it was definitely no holds barred. We were all like, what we were passionate about was hanging out, doing drugs, and that was how that was my friend group.
Like, if I wasn't going to if you didn't do drugs, you weren't friends with them. And because you did drugs, you were friends. That was what we it's a silly thing to say that we were passionate about, but that was like the connection that we all had. We came from different walks of life, but we were all kind of doing this back channel thing and we had this connection to using drugs.
00;22;49;20
Brenda
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As parents, sometimes we look at what our kids are doing. You know, people who are listening and we scratch our heads and we're like, This kid had the best childhood and grew up in this amazing neighborhood. And how could this happen? Like, how could this happen? But what we're not getting is that dialog that's running through your head about your worth, about being cool, about having something that's you that's so important to understand.
00;24;34;04
Brenda
It's such a huge part of of everything that's going on. And your parents realize, Do you think the degree of what was going on?
00;24;44;11
Matt
Yeah. Oh, they, they realized it is like an eighth grade member. I stole a house, John Jim from my dad and we got destroyed. My friends. I mean, like, just just so drunk. And I was really hung over the next day, and my mom knew it, like she knew what was going on. And when I one of the times with the mushrooms early on as a freshman in high school, which I got expelled or I dropped out, I didn't get expelled, but the horrible counselor just like encouraged me to drop out.
Like you were saying about people like, write these kids off. You told me I should quit. Basically. That's the kind. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. This teacher sees administrators in such an opportunity with kids to do something, and some of them make an amazing difference. Just incredible. And some of them just are not. They just don't have the IQ for it.
The emotional capacity. And and they're just interested in the kids who perform. And those are not the kind of teachers that we need in this world. We need those teachers some, but we need that We need the empathy. Yeah, that the the willingness to forgive and not encourage a kid to give up. But he saw like I remember, right, I did a lot of mushrooms one time and I got home and my mom came upstairs.
She was meeting with a parishioner and she came upstairs. Are you okay? You know, And I said, No, I'm on mushrooms. You know, I, like, just told her. So, Like she was very aware of what was happening to me. And eventually, after I don't know what point in time my freshman year, but like the area in Oregon I grew up in was also sort of ground zero for methamphetamines.
00;26;24;00
Matt
You know, crystal meth. And at some point we got into that, you know, it was like and that was that's where it really took a turn for the worse. That's where it landed. Like breaking in the places, stealing money, like, you know, just doing whatever we could to selling it, you know, whenever we could to I actually never did sell it myself, but would hang out with kids who did.
So I would have access to it and all of that. And, and, and for me, as a as a person with ADHD, it has a different effect on me also. So like, they get to give kids amphetamines as treatment for a DB because it has almost more of a focusing, calming effect then the opposite. But but it still has all of the tragic downsides, all of the suffering, you know, all of the rage that you feel when you're coming down from that all out.
I eventually quit and then my sophomore year decided to become addicted to a girlfriend instead of drugs.
00;27;29;23
Brenda
That makes sense.
00;27;30;06
Matt
Came back. You know, it's like they saying, if you're going to get in Alcoholics Anonymous, you're in a they're like, you know, I like, don't get in a relationship because you're just going to attach her addiction to this new thing right?
00;27;41;19
Brenda
And did you just quit on your own, just cold turkey, just decided to quit?
00;27;46;17
Matt
Sort of. Sort of. I were. I do. I remember the I remember there was a moment where I was just in the bathroom and my nose just would not stop bleeding. There was like blood everywhere. And I and my parents took me to an inpatient facility and I spent couple of weeks there. Yeah. And I remember the hardest thing for me brand that was like, But if I don't do math, all these friends I was that do math like how to build.
They're not going to be my friends anymore. I wasn't I wasn't like, Oh no, I'm never going to be able to get high again. It was like, I'm not going to be able to have these people in my life. And I actually really like those people. And in fact, some of those people are still friends of mine today than I did.
I grew up doing drugs with who are in a very different place. Also, I have an amazing friend group that many of them still exist today. Some of them weren't into the drugs and I'm still friends with some who were who don't anymore. All of that. But that was the hardest thing. But to know that the it was a willingness of my parents to like, continue and no matter what, to just pour back into me and give me another chance and be there when I needed something like not anything, you know, but the moments where I was broken and I needed help.
They weren't there to be willing to help me and so that's what triggered that. Like now that first recovery period, of course, I relapsed, but I went through my freshman year with this girl. She That's such a sweet girl, woman now that I don't know her anymore. She was a very astute student. And that sophomore year, so I dropped down my freshman year.
00;29;28;16
Matt
My sophomore year, I got like a 4.1 GPA, like Wow. Came back and just, you know, did amazing on everything. But then my junior year and I still have dreams about this because this friend of mine actually died at 18, not not from driving. She had a disease that's that danger. Arterial your heart, your connective tissues, including your arteries.
And he had some sort of an aneurysm that killed him playing video games to our friends at 18. But anyhow, he was one of those friends I had when I was in middle school. And then he was gone my freshman year because he'd moved to California. And I remember walking down the stairs my morning of my first day of my sophomore year.
He was so he was Aaron. And I saw Aaron. I'm like, Aaron, you're back, man. Where you been? Yeah, I like Aaron. It just was a really neat guy and good friend and as friends go and he and that like then kind of led me back into the like, oh yeah, we smoke weed together, we knew this. And now I just went right back.
I didn't, I didn't go back to Vietnam. Means it was cocaine And this, you know, math is dirty. I'm being facetious here, but like, meth is dirty. But the cocaine, you know, it's like the cool drug and I'm done. Almost anything you can think of with the exception of an injection, like any opium, like anything you would smoke, take a pill.
00;30;53;12
Matt
I've done it, you know, and but I yeah, I still have these crazy dreams where, like, I'll be asleep and I'll have that dream, like seeing Aaron. But it's like, where have you been? But I like, where have you been? You the dead, You know, like here you are again. That exact moment replays over and over. But that was unfortunately, even though I love Aaron, still love Aaron, God bless him, that that was that like trigger point back into it.
And at that point we were juniors. So now we were the cool kids, you know, now we were the kids who were cool. You're moving up on the ladder. Oh, there's a whole new level of respect that I got again from going back to that thing and being the guy who says the bad words and smokes the weed and does the coke and shows up at the party with the drugs and all of that.
So and I and I ended up dropping out my senior year also when I realized I was going to have to do an entire additional year if I wanted to graduate. I just like, you know, on get a Skidoo and start college.
00;31;54;04
Brenda
That's amazing, though. You still have even though on this side of things, it's kind of mayhem. On the other side, you're like, Yeah, I'm going to do this and then I'm going to go to college. Like, those two things seem very incongruent to me.
00;32;08;26
Matt
When all my friends are going to college. Friend Always. That's cool.
So like I found this a while back, so I got into Portland eventually, like long ways down the road. I got in the Portland State because four in state have much love for that school. I have an amazing program where if you get a JD with honors, they'll let you in like you have a high school degree.
And I, I found with a test like seven years ago and realized I got, I got honors on the Getty by one question. One question. I don't think it even meant anything to me at that point in time. But there are just those, like in hindsight, there are these miracles. Yes. That for me in my journey, that where God just kept unlocking doors for me.
00;32;58;20
Brenda
Yeah. So now you're able to get into Portland State because of that test.
00;33;04;15
Matt
Yep. And I got a 1.3 GPA and did cocaine and showed up to class high and never it didn't change anything. That was not the turning point for me. It was just another. Yeah, it was just a new place. Same guy, new place. My great grandmother used to say, wherever you go, there you are.
00;33;22;25
Brenda
And what's going on with your parents during this time when you're now in college?
00;33;27;24
Matt
They are. And my sister was and my sister had her own struggles. And of course, I traumatized her to the poor thing, you know, it's just like cause I would just punch holes in a wall. And we had one of those banisters, you know, the nineties banisters with the wood posts. And I would.
00;33;44;20
Brenda
Spindles.
00;33;46;00
Matt
The spindle like break the spindles, scream and yell and threatening to kill myself. Yeah, I just, I remember I stuck a gun in my mouth in front of my mom one time, I mean, just I just awful stuff, you know, like, awful. And she didn't know I had a gun, you know, like, so just all of that. I just can't even imagine the trauma of this.
Like, my parents are a catastrophe because they already weren't on the same page. And so on top of that, now they've got this out of control like. Is our son like looking at my son Michael? I can't even imagine. Is it like she just going to kill himself? It's like, wait, is when are the cops going to show up and just say he died in a car wreck last night, like one of his friends, like I've had?
I couldn't tell you how many friends have died of opium or I could. I can go through the list for sure, but I won't write right. Car crashes, opium overdose, my opioid overdoses, all sorts of stuff. And you got to feel as a mom, like I imagine you were. And you're like, When is when am I going to get a call?
00;34;49;17
Brenda
Yep. Every day. Yeah, every day.
00;34;53;04
Matt
The anxiety from that must have been extreme. My dad responded with anger and my mom responded with withdrawal. That's what home life was. It just were more and more resentment, you know, not a place you want to be. But they still like how I got in the part of the state. You know, we'll pay for a place for you to be, you know, we'll just so that you can enjoy the college experience, those moments of hope, you know, they would still be willing to pour into those moments and give me another chance.
Another chance, Another chance, no matter how much I screwed up.
00;35;24;11
Brenda
So you're sitting here today with a master's degree and in a very senior level position, something changed.
00;35;34;01
Matt
I got a DUI. I got a DUI. That's what changed. I in May God bless that police officer who gave me that DUI, who I actually saw in a bar later. You know, like I'm not I'm actually not Alcohol is not a substance I struggle with. And the addiction to substances, luckily for me, was not my addiction. So I didn't I was it was easier, I think, for me than it is for other wished for other people to let go of it by replacing the behaviors that brought the friends together with other things that actually are near and dear to my heart, which is hunting and fishing and skateboarding and snowboarding.
But but with a healthier group of friends. But I am DUI. One night, Cinco de Mayo was 21 years old at a house party, drank way too much. I remember I was wanting some cocaine, couldn't find it, you know, like so I just decided I was going to drive home and somebody must have thankfully called the police on me because I remember turning into my parents neighborhood and there was just a cop with a flashlight in the middle of the road just pointing me to the curb.
And there are two ways into my parents neighborhood. Two roads. So I'm sure they probably posted cops on both roads and I'm sure they knew who I was. You know, when you're when you're in a community that's only got 18,000 people in it and you're running with that crowd, they know they know.
00;36;58;01
Brenda
Who you are.
00;36;59;09
Matt
Yes, they do. And I'd had who knows how many speeding tickets. They knew my car at that point in time. I was on a delayed entry program for the Navy because I tried to use I remember waking up one morning, so hung over and realizing I had a 1.3 GPA and like, I'm never going to melt anything. Like I'm going to end the whole lesson on the streets.
So I called the Coast Guard recruiter and the Coast Guard recruiter said. This was right. This was 2001. So it was like the beginning of the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq. Coast Guard said, like, we don't have any some call the Navy. So I called the Navy and really great recruiter and said, Yeah, man, you know, like, of course they didn't know about any of the drug stuff.
Like you have to you have to tell them like, oh no, I mean, they smoke pot one time and yes, like, but the recruiter told me it's like top issues, like I just tell him this, you know, like, so you in which happens a lot a lot you know and also like very prevalent I'm sure in that experience that like I got a contract for a special operations program doesn't matter didn't do it.
One of my greatest regrets in life I just feel like such a loser, honestly, to this day, when I think about it, like, come on, man, you committed to this thing and you didn't do it. And and so that's the thing that was really tearing me up at that moment. I knew I'm getting a DUI and the whole plan, I had to get myself out of this.
00;38;22;16
Matt
It was my only plan is gone. This was my way out. Like, was that like extreme? Like kind of extreme sports version, military, whatever, like adrenaline seeking, like I was sounded so cool to me and I was like, I am all hope lost again, you know? And I just felt like such a piece of garbage. I knew that it was gone and I was just way out of sorts.
And they had my mom come out and she said, I remember the police officer saying, like, do you want to take him home? And she said, No, I'll take him to jail. Like, because I was she was worried about what I would do. She like, he needs to sober up. I don't want him I don't want her to deal with this.
And when I come out in the morning, my grandparents, wonderful people, they're both dead now. But my grandfather's high powered attorney in Seattle, amazing man, his wife, my grandmother, amazing. When my when I walk out of jail in the morning, my grandparents had driven down and my mom and my grandparents were there to pick me up. And I remember seeing my grandparents and just sobbing like probably because I was embarrassed that my mom needed some support.
And so then I end up in a point in a court appointed DUI diversion program. And during that program, I failed EUA for cocaine. I went to a friend's wedding, messed up again, and and sailed a lake and had to go back to the judge and the judge said, look, dude, we're getting one more chance. One more. And part of this one more chance is you now have to also see this other drug counselor one on one, not just to group sessions.
00;40;11;21
Matt
And you got to call in. You got to be blue color in green color or whatever, when you call them, you know, not just the one color anymore. You're coming in here two days a week randomly to get you these. And again, like, fantastic judge, like, I wish everybody would just get the chances. I got that just kept getting chances.
I see this other drug counselor. I remember talking to him and I like I was pissed, you know, I just like all my hope was lost and I'm like, What? Why should I listen to you? You know, there's the first drug counselor. She was kind of, like, tidied up and buttoned up and uptight and didn't have the access that I needed, that somebody needed for me to give them some credit, to listen to them.
Right. And he was like, Oh, you want to know how why you should listen to me. Let me tell you my story and told me this super jacked up story about his cocaine use. And I was like, Well, okay, this guy knows something. You he's got some. I think that's so just as an aside, I think that's an important part for anyone with a child who's struggling is there are only certain people that they will let access them.
Yeah. And those people have to have shared experiences. If they don't, they will just feel like they're being judged. Yes. So this guy, through these one on one sessions, ratified my perspective on who I could be and like I'd come back in school. Portland State Like I said, I had a 1.3 GPA, took everything. I took a 4.0 GPA to climb out of that hole.
00;41;46;25
Matt
I barely made it into the business school. It's the highest of any state. School in Oregon has highest standards for business school. It's like 2.5. That's art road climbing at about 1.3. That is a long graduated with a yes, graduated with a 3.3. And then really there was no looking back once I started to taste successful, understand my capabilities were still had the same family who loved me no, you know I was there for me.
My mom would stay up late sometimes and like with me writing papers. I remember a couple of times I fell asleep and she finished the papers for me. You know, I had just really sweet stories and I just never stopped. Once I caught a tailwind, I just never stopped my life. It's just been a blessing since.
00;42;37;01
Brenda
Wow. It's very interesting what you said about the substances versus kind of the emotional pain and struggling, because I saw that with my son as well. And even some of his therapists said, you know, we think he's actually more addicted to this lifestyle than the drugs and the drugs do catch up, obviously, because there's the physiological aspect of it.
But that's so interesting that you said that and that it really took you seen somebody who had been where you were, had made that change and you said, I could do that. Once you got that, the self-efficacy started to kick in and you get a win and then you get another win. Obviously, you have such incredible hindsight now.
If you could go back to that 15 year old Matt, who was selling the Ritalin and fitting in and stealing the very expensive wine from your dad, what do you think you would want to tell him?
00;43;42;13
Matt
I don't know how I would have been to convey in this, so I don't know what the words would be. But if I could blank if I was trying to impress upon him something that would heal him, it would be to install in the younger me that I had intrinsic worth, that I was valuable, that I was a beautiful perfectly imperfect human being, and that I don't need to do anything different than just be the crazy, nerdy magic nerd playing little kid that I am and that someday you like.
You talked about that crystal ball. I if I could just show him the crystal ball and say, Look, dude, like this is your potential. And luckily for me brand, I, I actually got to like the potential happened Yeah and I have so many friends that died in car accidents and overdose The son that had the same potential.
00;44;43;25
Brenda
Yeah.
00;44;45;15
Matt
The same potential or maybe better. I mean, like, just smart, creative. May I listen to the podcast you had about your son? You talked about how creative he was. I think when he kids it was so smart and creative. And I know that it's the smart, creative kids that have more that are at higher risk of substance abuse.
00;45;06;02
Brenda
Yeah, smart, creative, sensitive.
00;45;08;27
Matt
Sensitive
00;45;10;11
Brenda
The sensitivity because the world is so much you know, And I just think about the onslaught of not just the world, but the pressure, the social pressure, especially today with social media. I can't even fathom what that would add in as an element to all of this. And I'm just curious, like you said, you know, I wouldn't even know how to impress this upon the the younger me.
Do you think if somebody had recognized the internal battle that you were fighting about your self-worth and and your uniqueness, either your parents or maybe a teacher or a counselor or a coach or somebody who had known, Oh, this this guy's struggling, do you think you would have been receptive to or do you think they could have said or done anything to allow you to see that amazing side of yourself?
00;46;17;04
Matt
I wish I had a magic key that I could just turn for everyone listening to this. There's one truth about drug addiction. One really sad truth about drug addiction is that the only person who can choose to not do the drugs anymore is the user. And so for the people around them, it's about hope. It's about like taking advantage of those moments of hope that where you have that chance to say, like, no, look, I encourage them in those times where they get the little bump up, like just help them push them up more, one step more and constant love.
So like what you said to me about the community and people saying, like, ignoring them, just like maybe they'll come back. No, that is hundred percent the wrong answer. If you do that, they will definitely not come back. The thing to do is just be there and and give them opportunities because maybe for some of them they will.
They will take those opportunities and and start their own journey towards recovery and make the decision to choose a different life.
00;47;26;25
Brenda
Yeah. What do you think your journey through all of this gives you today in what you do and how you live your life?
00;47;39;09
Matt
It gives me perspective. I try really hard when I see homeless people on the street to look them in the eye and say hi, because that could have been me. You know, we're all one like tragic accident away from just giving up. And it gives me a perspective that like, remember that like we're just all human beings and we all have inherent worth and we it's important to be understanding and kind to each other because you never know like that.
One moment like that, you say hi and look that homeless person in the eye and acknowledged him as a human being. That could be that moment where you push them up, that plus one. And the next time you know, they go to the wherever or to get their food, they meet a person that day that like gives them another bump up.
And it just creates the catalyst that they needed to change their life. So it's like if we just giving each other a chance. So I really what it gives me is a perspective of the world to know that everybody has an imperfect story. And there's there's more to it than just the way somebody is acting that day or the way that they operate or the way that they're treating you.
It's there's there's always something going on that's bigger than me.
00;49;10;26
Brenda
Yeah, well, that seems like a beautiful place to wrap it up, because I think you just gave everybody listening some really good insight about ways that we can be additive and supportive in this process, knowing that we can't fix or change the other person. But we certainly can act in ways that will be encouraging or kind of sabotaging too, to somebody who's trying to get just that one next step up.
00;49;47;01
Matt
Yeah, just got to take care of yourself as a supporter so that you're able in those moments to give them what they need. Because if you're completely drained, you know, I feel even have that little plus one yourself. So you're not going to have anything left.
00;49;59;24
Brenda
Yes. Well, you're you're preaching to the choir because anybody listening is probably really tired of hearing me talk about self-care and taking care of yourself. Yeah, but because that's something I talk about a lot. But it's true because if you got to the point where you did and you started having the success and your mom was or your mom and dad or sister or your family, if they were so broken from it that they weren't really there for you anymore, then that's just another loss.
And we have to take care of ourselves so that not just so that we can take care of, you know, the other person, but so that we continue on with our life. And you could see or my son could see, or all the parents who are listening, their kids can see my mom is okay, my dad is okay.
And that's because sometimes you need that light, right, to say, okay, there are some people in my life who are okay. And that's so important.
00;51;03;02
Matt
Yes.
00;51;05;08
Brenda
Matt, I cannot tell you how happy I am that we got reconnected. Thank you. LinkedIn. And for Latinos reconnect to all will catch up later on everything that's gone on with us professionally but I just thank you so much for sharing your story for Recovery month. I think we don't hear enough recovery stories. So for someone in your position, you know, from a career standpoint socially, to be willing to share your story is truly, truly a blessing to other families.
And I just can't thank you enough for it.
00;51;39;09
Matt
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make something more of my story than just having it be mine.
00;51;48;26
Brenda
Okay, that is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to Brenda Zane Gqom forward slash podcast. All of the episodes are listed there and you can also find curated playlists there, so that's very helpful. You might also want to download a free e-book I wrote. It's called Hindsight Three Things I Wish I Knew when My Son Was Misusing Drugs.
It'll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are. And importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through this rough time. You can grab that free from Brenda's income. Forget hindsight. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it. And I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself.
And I will meet you right back here next week.