Surviving The Perfect Storm Of Challenging Kids, Aging And Menopause; This One's For The Mommas, with Dr. Robin Sinclair, ND
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
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Guest: Dr. Robin Sinclair, ND
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episode transcript
SPEAKERS
Brenda Zane, Dr. Sinclair
Brenda
Well, I am happy to be here with you today. You might notice that I sound a little different and that is because I decided to do Invisalign to straighten out my teeth, which have somehow decided to move around over the years. And I'm adjusting to those. And I sound a bit strange. It's also hard to fully enunciate words. So just bear with me over the next couple of weeks. As I relearn how to talk. Today's episode is really going to be for you mamas out there who have entered the perfect storm of having a son or daughter who is a bit off the rails, as we say. Or even in early recovery or maybe even long-term recovery and you're also getting into the very fun stages of perimenopause or menopause.
Your career or your home life might feel like they're. A little bit on a teeter-totter and your emotional set point feels a little out of whack. This felt like a really important topic to cover here because it's inevitable. We're all going to go through menopause. You all likely have a child who's causing you a lot of stress and you're probably feeling that physical impact of it. Even if you're in your early or mid-forties, this episode is going to apply to you.
So don't skip over it thinking this is the episode for all the old ladies. I took a risk and I asked my own doctor, if she would chat with me. To talk about things like hormones, menopause, digestive issues, sleep. Emotional unevenness and other things that I know you might also be dealing with. I'm so fortunate that I get to work with Dr. Robin Sinclair here in the Seattle area.
She's a naturopathic doctor who has helped me a ton with some digestive issues and especially with menopausal symptoms. She has an easy style and explains things in a way that just makes sense. So I thought it would be. A really great discussion for an episode.
Dr. Sinclair received her doctorate of naturopathic medicine from national college of naturopathic medicine in Portland, Oregon in 2003. Prior to that she received her pre-medical education at Humboldt state university in Northern California. Her bachelor's in science, in interdisciplinary studies.
I allowed her to create her own degree. Blending, three of her passions, science, psychology, and art. Her degree major was biomedical studies. And her minor was in biological psychology, a budding field that deals with the neuro-transmitters involved with behavior and mood. That combination of education served as a foundation.
To build upon with her naturopathic training and uniquely prepared her for her current practice, focus on mood disorders. Today Dr. Robin practices at North Seattle Natural Medicine, a practice she started here with another doctor in 2011. I think the review on her website that says Dr. Robin is the Chuck Norris of doctors pretty much sums it up. So I won't keep you any longer from this very important conversation. With Dr. Robin Sinclair
Welcome, Dr. Sinclair. I'm so excited to have this conversation about women. So if you're listening, this conversation is for the ladies. I would love to give people a quick background on who you are, how in the world you decided to go into medicine and become a naturopathic doctor. Cause I think that's a really good foundation for all the stuff that we're going to.
[00:05:19] Dr. Sinclair: Well, I would say it's actually, hormones was probably the main driver into natural medicine and mood. When I was a teenager going through menarche my mood was bananas to put it nicely. And I didn't understand what was going on. My poor mother didn't either because my sister and her both got the genetic lucky ness and the hormone department, I think mother, what is happening to my teenager, she's insane.
And I went to several doctors and nobody really could tell me what was going on. And kind of kept blaming things that, you know, Thinking I was depressed. Well, I was thinking I was anxious while I was, you know, all of these things, but nobody really had an answer as to what to do. And at that time, Prozac was not in the market yet.
But I probably would have been on Prozac at that time. And my mom luckily realized there was about one week out of the month where I was back to being her normal daughter and the other three weeks were at her chaos. And so she started looking into some alternative treatments because she was desperate.
And we started doing some hormone balancing more naturally and it really balanced my mood. And, and so luckily my mom had the foresight to really look at the picture and say, you know, she is it, this is hormonally triggered. And that became very important to me because I remember as a teenager thinking, I don't want to feel like I feel. And I think so often with mood disorders, we blame the patient or the person and, and want them to just think their way out of it. The difference with hormones is you have these chemicals rushing through your body, telling you to feel a certain way, and it's really uncontrollable. As any woman who has suffered from PMs can tell you it's very difficult to control.
And so so that was kind of my segue into natural medicine was realizing as a teenager that the more allopathic or modern medicine didn't have all the answers. And so that's what kinda sprung me into naturopathic medicine. And I really loved the focus on hormones and mood disorders and. It's a lot of what I do, but but I also had digestive issues that were not fixed either at about that same time. And so learning how mood affects our digestion and how hormones tie into all of that was kind of what I, what I D dedicated lots and lots and lots of schooling to learn.
[00:08:08] Brenda: Wow, which is why you're the perfect doctor for me.
[00:08:12] Dr. Sinclair: You're not alone.
[00:08:13] Brenda: Yes. Turns out I'm not alone because I talk with so many moms, as you know, I work with moms and there is, and this is why I wanted to talk with you so much is that there's such a connection. And I don't know all the science behind it between our gut and our brain.
And when you have so much stress in your life and so much chaos from your child it just, wow. It is just a lot. And I've been fortunate, you know, to find you in a couple of other people, who've helped me through that, but I think there's a lot of women out there who are like, holy cow, what is going on with my body? I feel terrible. I look terrible, right? Cause it, it like comes from the inside out. I just think it's important. And so I wanted to do this is to just get some information to women who are suffering with this and we all go through it. I mean, and no one's immune to, to going through. And like, we were just chatting the age that we have these teenagers and the age where we start to become, I guess it's perimenopausal and we'll get into all the terminology, but it's starting to line up. And so you have this like perfect storm of all of the crazy. So
[00:09:30] Dr. Sinclair: You had a global pandemic onto it, and then it's just, you know, It's really perfect.
[00:09:34] Brenda: It's perfect. It is perfect. I would love to just have you explain a little bit about why our body does not like stress, cause you kind of think, well, you know, our bodies should be geared for stress because everybody has it, but why is this kind of prolonged stress even more dangerous and, and what's going on when we have that level of chronic stress in our bodies, especially as women.
[00:10:01] Dr. Sinclair: So that's one of my favorite things to talk about. And so we do have the ability to, to adapt to stress. However, we have not really evolved past kind of caveman sympathetic and parasympathetic system where. Stress for our body should be really short. So there's kind of two types of stress that our body is geared at dealing with.
One would be, you know, oh, there's a bear and I need to run from it. And so that real acute stress fires up the adrenal glands and the adrenal glands go into this fight or flight mode. And it helps you get away from the bear or fight it. Then there's a little bit more of a chronic stress, which, you know, more primitive human would experience with food shortage.
You know, so it's winter and, we're running out of food. And so that is, more of like a long-term stress and the adrenal gland is geared at that as well. And with that, the body goes into will, I should preserve as much fat as possible, right. Because we're stressed and we're getting the signal that food is scarce. Gain weight and the best place to do it is right in our tummy, like really convenient for modern bay pants. So those two types of stress, the main one, the more fight or flight acute. Oh my gosh. I need to get out of here. That is really geared at being very short, short period of time. Unfortunately, modern-day, most of us are dominant in that state.
And so we are constantly bombarded with things that stress us out, whether it be what's on our phone, what's on the news, what's everywhere. Right, And so our nervous system just keeps thinking we're, we're running from the bear. We're supposed to be finding the bear. And when it does that, you know, fight or flight.
It really shuts many of our, our parasympathetic systems down like our gut and says, Ooh, now it's not a good time to digest. You gotta run. And so when we're constantly telling our gut now is not a good time to digest, we need to be putting all of our blood and energy into fighting.
We don't want to digest. And so then we get now digestive symptoms, gas, bloating, poor motility. Et cetera. And then that can kind of lead the way to things like small intestinal, bacterial overgrowth, yeast overgrowth, et cetera. So so we get this brain-gut connection through stress. And then the other side of that, when how women are, I don't want to say affected more because of course men are affected as well, but the ovaries are kind of governed by the adrenal glands.
So when the adrenal glands are happy, the ovaries function better. So when the body is under stress, when the adrenal glands are under stress, it's almost like you don't have that, that parent kind of making sure the child is doing the right thing. And so the ovaries are more likely to start doing their own thing, right. Misbehaving a little bit. And, and interestingly, we are seeing women go into perimenopause a lot earlier than our mother's generation and then our mother's mother's generation. And part of that thought is because stress, the adrenal glands are so much more burned out in each generation that it's kind of, the ovaries are just starting to go, well, I give up
[00:13:45] Brenda: Right, Tapping out.
[00:13:47] Dr. Sinclair: you're on your own girl.
[00:13:48] Brenda: Yeah. So what happens when our ovaries kind of go rogue and they're like, yeah, I'm not getting what I need from the adrenal glands. Like what's what happens.
[00:13:58] Dr. Sinclair: So generally speaking ovulation is the first thing that's really affected. And so with ovulation, we get progesterone. And so every month when our ovaries ovulate the tissue that. Pops out the egg starts to shrink and produces something called the Corpus luteum and the Corpus luteum is what produces progesterone and progesterone is that thing that kind of tells us everything's gonna be okay.
I can let it go. I can sleep. I'm relaxed. It stimulates GABA receptors and GABAA receptors help us to digest and improves. Bowel motility helps us sleep. And just generally kind of is the brakes of the nervous system. Just kind of like whew, everything. I'm just letting it go. And when our adrenal glands are under stress, we see a decrease in progesterone production and, and this is common as we get older. The downside is stress. Making us get older quicker, I guess. And so that decreased progesterone not only affects GI motility, but affects sleep, which turns back to affect GI motility and just our overall nervous system resilience and our ability to feel relaxed and at peace. So that's impaired.
[00:15:23] Brenda: Right. Everything obviously is connected in our bodies, but I think it's just, it's helpful to hear those connection points of why we might feel mentally and emotionally affected. By the stress, but not just by the stress that's going on, but because of what's happening in our body.
[00:15:44] Dr. Sinclair: Yeah, so that, that adrenal gland not governing the ovaries as well allowing the ovaries to kind of futz out, so to speak and not perform optimally starts to have this very slow and steady decline. And in that, and sleep quality is, you know, one of the first things that go and cognition, women will say, I used to be sharp as a check and I just, my brain is. And so that is, you know, two hormones that start to decrease estrogen and progesterone. And so all of a sudden we feel like we, you know, can't, can't think our way out of a bucket, so to speak and, and I'll ask them, do you have the I'm in the middle of a sentence? All of a sudden, I can't remember what I was talking about or walk into a room and go, what was I doing here?
[00:16:37] Brenda: Why did I come in here?
[00:16:39] Dr. Sinclair: I walk in here? and that has to do with those hormones that help our brain to kind of function better. And that, you know, a lot of women in the pyramid of all this time are also in the peak of their careers and nothing shakes a woman's confidence as much as all of a sudden I'm at the highlight of my career. And I am forgetting what I'm saying, no sentence for presenting something in the middle, you know, a group of people and I'm sweating.
[00:17:10] Brenda: Yes.
[00:17:11] Dr. Sinclair: None of these things are great.
[00:17:13] Brenda: That is always fun. Yes. Yeah. It is that perfect storm of you're right? The height of often the height of a career or returning back to work. So maybe you took some time off when your kids were younger and now you're just kind of on that on-ramp of, of a new career or a passion or something like that.
And then for, for the people who are listening here, all of a sudden you have a kid who's going off the rails and doing these crazy things, and you're trying to figure out what that is. And it, it really does become overwhelming because you're not sleeping. You're not eating well, which we haven't even touched the food issue with all of them.
[00:17:57] Dr. Sinclair: We all eat really healthy when we're stressed, well, and that is adrenal-related to we crave more carbs and things like that. Cause our cortisol is up that increases our insulin. And so our body says I watch. So when we are craving those carbohydrates, it's, we're stressed.
[00:18:14] Brenda: Yeah. So, what impact does this have then on peri-menopause and maybe you can explain what that actually is kind of what that term means. Peri-menopause versus if somebody says I'm in menopause or if they say I'm post-menopause like, what does that actually mean?
[00:18:34] Dr. Sinclair: Oh, that is such a good question. And one that in medicine I don't want to say medicine's a man's world, but the technical term for menopause is no periods for one calendar year, and this is working on being changed. But for many, many, many years, they would say, oh, you're not in menopause.
You know, if you, so you haven't had a period for eight months, but then all of a sudden. You're not in menopause yet. Well, obviously something hormonal is happening. Right? And so what they used to do is literally not address this until women had not had a period for a calendar year. And as we go into perimenopause, perimenopause can be, you know, 10 years before actual menopause.
So when you don't have a period for a calendar year and a lot of things happened during that time. But it's, it's kind of has a bad connotation, like, oh, menopause that's that's. Old women do that. And so perimenopause is 10, sometimes 15 years before we actually have that medical definition of menopause where you don't have a period per calendar year.
Now they are trying to change that and say, okay, if you haven't had a period and you have an elevation of FSH and LH, which are brain hormones telling the ovaries to get to work, if you have those, we can kind of, you know, say, oh, this is menopause. And a lot of doctors are starting to treat women before that calendar year happens, because obviously they're coming in and saying, I can't sleep.
I can't think I'm depressed. You know, I'm having hot flashes day and night. And so that it is being addressed in that way. And then post-menopause is the period after you've had no period for one calendar. Yeah. And so we were talking about this back 20 years ago when I was in my GYN class. And we're like, wait a minute.
So perimenopause is anytime before menopause is the point in which you haven't had a period for calendar year and then post-menopause is. literally Right. after
[00:20:51] Brenda: like is that day 366, that doesn't even make sense.
[00:20:57] Dr. Sinclair: yeah, this doesn't make sense, you know, so menopause is like a deep in time. And so really, you know, I think having the perimenopause is, you know, around menopause is basically this term that says things in your ovaries are changing that are a little bit different than some other things that happen.
As far as hormonal changes like polycystic ovarian syndrome, et cetera. And so it's more of like, this is a natural thing that's happening. But how do we support it now? The downside, you know, I think most of, you know, our mother's generation went through perimenopause and here are two, and I don't want to say they were less stressed.
But we are seeing that women nowadays are really, you know, going into in their early thirties where they're starting to have symptoms that when I first started practicing 17 years ago, I was seeing in my patients, you know, it's like, okay, you're 45. When we start to see these things, maybe early forties.
And nowadays I see it in my, you know, 32-year-olds are starting to have these symptoms of early menopause. And when I first started practicing, I used to really not think about asking women about menopause until they were like near 50.
And now it's definitely well, you're 40. Okay. So what's going on? So things are definitely shifting just in the past 17 years that I've been practicing where, you know, everybody's getting stressed more early and then this is affecting the ovaries,
[00:22:37] Brenda: Wow. That is really interesting because somebody could be just starting their family in their early thirties as well. So that. Gotta be a bit of a mess. So those are sort of the time periods, which is fascinating, but what is physically going on with us? When let's say you actually are now nine, 10 months into not having a period what's going on because we know the symptoms like we know, oh, I feel this way, but what's happening in our body.
[00:23:11] Dr. Sinclair: So the first thing that happens in perimenopause is progesterone drops and with progesterone being that calming hormone and that brain nourishing hormone, what we start to see is cognitive issues. Poor sleep. That's the first thing that usually women will complain of and they don't realize it's correlated specifically waking up between two and four in the morning.
So it'll be sometime around then they'll say, oh yeah, 3 30, 3 every night. And I wake up and look at my clock and say, it's 3 33. So between two and four in the morning, they wake up and then they have a hard time falling back asleep. So I fall asleep fine. Then I wake up in the middle of the night, I think, maybe to pee.
I don't know, but then I can't fall back asleep because my mind is ruminating. So those were usually the first things. And then women will start to say, I'm having my period a little bit. It's heavier. I used to be, you know, like normal flow kind of person. And now it's starting to get heavier cramps, breast tenderness, and irritability may start increasing.
And part of that is because we, we start to kind of move into this more estrogen dominant phase. And so estrogen gets a little bit, well, I don't want to say a bad name, but she's the one that can make us a little bit grouchier. And so when we are estrogen dominant our patients is shorter. We're more likely to have a worsening of any skin conditions that we used to have.
So acne eczema, psoriasis migraines really start to make a reappearance and. Started to become more frequent. A lot of people will say, I used to have migraines once or twice a year. Now it's every single month. And the, irritability and mood swings will worsen and not part of it comes from estrogen. Estrogen affects our serotonin levels which is oftentimes a good thing, but too much estrogen can make us pretty crabby. And that is the I could rip my husband's head off hormone.
[00:25:27] Brenda: oh, yes. I think I know that one.
[00:25:30] Dr. Sinclair: I had a patient say, I think our therapies working, I don't want to punch my husband in the throat.
[00:25:38] Brenda: That is a win. Yes. Okay. So progesterone's going down which means the estrogen is becoming more dominant.
[00:25:47] Dr. Sinclair: It's it's and this is it can be high, but usually it's normal. But what I try to explain to people is if there are two voices in the room and they're both speaking at about the same level, we can kind of toggle and hear both of them and get input from both. If one of them starts yelling at us, we're not going to be able to hear the other one. The same is if the other one is you know, at normal levels and one of them has gone. So it's kind of like high estrogen and normal progesterone. All you'll hear is the estrogen, normal estrogen, low progesterone. All you hear is the estrogen and estrogen, you know, goes up and down throughout our cycle.
And the effect of that will affect our mood. So that is the one that I don't want to say. It affects our mood more because progesterone definitely does, but is the one that inconveniences us more because it's the one that we either when it goes away, we feel very weepy. And when it's really high, that's when we want to strangle our loved ones.
[00:26:58] Brenda: Okay. That makes sense. So If you're working with a doctor you're working to get that closer to in balance that you're not feeling those swings.
Okay. That makes sense.
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[00:27:09] Brenda: Hello, I'm jumping in for just a minute to let you know that there is a very special community. I created online where moms of kids misusing or addicted to substances gathered together and get through the hard stuff with each other. It's called the stream. And it's unique in that it's not a Facebook group and we focus on positively holding each other up when our kids are struggling. It's a place where we focus on you, because if you are one of these amazing moms, there's a lot of focus on your son or daughter, but who is taking care of you?
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episode continued:
[00:28:06] Dr. Sinclair: And then in menopause. And whenever that kind of, whenever we want to kind of coin that I count menopause when your estrogen levels drop as well. So let's say you haven't had a period for four months. But all of a sudden you're coming and saying, I am so depressed and I am like hot flashing and I just am really struggling.
That's usually estrogen dropping also. So it's progesterone first and that can, unfortunately, you know, take years and years of low progesterone, normal estrogen. And when estrogen drops, that is when hot flashes during the day become much more prevalent and the hot flashes at night or ramp up. So usually I'm in just the low progesterone state.
So perimenopause women will say a couple of times a month, they wake up and they stick their leg out of the covers and they're kind of hot. And then they cover back up. And that's usually just low progesterone. It's not all month. When estrogen drops, it kind of becomes usually an all month thing.
And it's like, I can't get through the day. I'm, you know, I'm cold, I'm hot and cold.
[00:29:18] Brenda: I was on a plane a couple of days ago and I saw this woman wearing like a fan around her neck. It was like a neck thing. And there was a fan on each side blowing air, and I just felt so bad. And I thought, oh my goodness, there has to be a solution for this that we shouldn't have to be wearing fans. I mean, come on. So if you're the point where you are wearing a fan, please find a doctor,
[00:29:45] Dr. Sinclair: I have seen people like that in the wild and it, my husband also often it's, you know, we'll say, do you want to give that person your card? And I think, you know, it's not my business. Do I want them to know you don't have. Absolutely. And they could have other things going on, you know, they could be on tomoxifin, you know, Bret something to treat breast cancer, you know, so a lot of times when you see people in the wild, you don't always know their whole story, but my heart does break when someone comes in and I realize you've been struggling with this for years, like years of your life have gone by struggling and not understanding that there is a pretty simple solution, that breaks my heart.
I was telling you earlier that NPR did a whole program on perimenopause and mental health and it was a week. And so every morning we had like a little, you know, podcasting. And the only thing they didn't talk about with balancing your hormones, they just talked about going on antidepressants, want to just scream because I thought what, you know, so the depressive side of it this is commonly when women will start adding in the depressants.
Cause they, they just feel like I don't even know what's going on and I'm just not myself anymore. But because we have been kind of taught well, until you're having hot flashes every day and your period stops it's nothing. , And so they don't relate it to a hormone imbalance and so they'll go and they get depressants or anti-anxiety meds.
And that, that breaks my heart because it's like, no, no. I mean, yes, those, those chemicals, you feel those things, and that is real. But it's not because you have a Prozac deficiency, you know, it is because you have a hormone imbalance and I'm definitely not opposed to prescription antidepressants antianxiety meds because they are necessary at some points, but not when there's other work that can be done.
[00:31:55] Brenda: I think what is so confusing for, for my listeners is you've got so many. Pieces of the puzzle and you're like, is it menopause? Is it my kid making me crazy? Is it the fact that, you know, I'm getting into my fifties and there are all kinds of like career and emotional things around that.
And so it's kind of like, where do you start? Because if you, if you say, okay, I really would like to avoid having to take a prescription antidepressant or antianxiety medication. And like you said, nothing wrong with that, if that's the right solution. But if you wanted to try other things first I think that's where it gets confusing because you don't know where to start as like, do I start with food?
Do I start with exercise? Do I start with hormones? Do I start with, you know, where do I start this? And for me, luckily I get to work with you. And so we untangled a lot of that. Is that just what you have to do is you just have to start picking the pieces apart and trying different things. Or how, like, what would you say would be the best approach if you've got all of these different things happening?
[00:33:06] Dr. Sinclair: I always tell people when they come to me and they have all of these things going on and, you know, of course, diet and exercise and eating right, and all that stuff, we, we all, we all know that it's hard to find a person who is completely ignorant and says, I did not know that, eating healthy and exercising and drinking water was going to make me feel better.
The problem is, is that when we are. In hormonal overload, it is very difficult for us to make smart choices and, and our biochemistry is working against us. And so oftentimes, people come in and say, oh, should I just like stop eating sugar altogether? And I'll say, sure, that is wonderful for you.
Are you going to be able to do it? And is it just adding one more stressful thing into your life? So I, usually my approach is let's get your hormones and mood feeling better. And when your hormones and mood are balanced, it's so much easier to make great digestive choices to make sure you pack your lunch, bring that to work.So you're not going and grabbing a donut or something. So, all of those things are easier when our hormones and our mood is balanced. And, you know, I think all of us, most women can have gone through this once a month where you have that one or two days where you're like logic. I'm having a donut, you know, but then we started pairing. We're like, okay, back on track. And peri-menopause is like being stuck in a PMS groundhog's day.
[00:34:41] Brenda: Right as a perfect, perfect way to describe it.
[00:34:46] Dr. Sinclair: And so for perspective, I, what I tell people is, you know, a lot of people will win when we have that cycle. When we have that right before a period, we can, you know, we come home from work and we're like, oh, I hate this job. And I want a new thing. And I hate everybody, whatever. Right. We go through these feelings and then we start our period and we kind of go, oh yeah, actually, no, that's that was just me being really moody.
[00:35:12] Brenda: That was my period amnesia.
[00:35:14] Dr. Sinclair: And so what's hard is that when we start going through this every day and it's like, not as severe It's easy for us to forget that we're actually just stuck more often in that one to two days before a period. And so everything starts to seem like everything sucks, everything needs to change. And so we don't have that clear perspective. I know for myself, that when I went through perimenopause, it was a very stressful time in my life. I just moved left a successful business. Started a practice, had just relocated across the country. There was a lot of things going on.And once I got my hormones balanced, I came home. I was still, my husband said, this is what it's like to be a man.
[00:36:04] Brenda: I love it.
[00:36:05] Dr. Sinclair: And he's like, what do you mean. I thought I had a lot of personnel issues at work. Right, I thought I had all these problems, I started this business and, there was just all these problems and I realized when my hormones were balanced and you know, when you go through menopause, you get to take the same dose of hormones every single day. So you're the same person, every single day, it's glorious. And I said, this is what it's like to be a man every day, you wake up and you're the same
[00:36:37] Brenda: right.
[00:36:38] Dr. Sinclair: And he says, yeah.
[00:36:41] Brenda: Yeah. Like what? That's not how you've been living.
[00:36:44] Dr. Sinclair: And it was very interesting because I was working with two women who were, in that period, in the puzzle phase. And I told my husband, I said, I feel like a guy for the first time where I'm like, oh, she's she's on her period. Like I can see other people's Period swings.
Like my husband had been kind of telling me for years of like, oh, I know when you're about to go, like crazy, because I'm sitting here watching you. And it was this whole different perspective of like, oh, this is what it's like to be a dude every day you wake up same hormones, same person. And I told him, man, I could have ruled the world. I could have ruled the world.
[00:37:27] Brenda: exactly. That is really true. And I think what was interesting for me just sort of getting into all of this was that for some reason, like hormones and all of that had seemed really nebulous to me. And it, it had all been about how I was feeling. And then you were like, oh no, we're going to do blood work.
And then you just look at the level. It's like, there's a number attached to this, so it's not just, oh, how are you feeling good? Are you feeling terrible? It's not just feelings. There's actually like you can measure this stuff. And for some reason, I had never realized that I just always thought it was just this emotional thing. And you kind of just had to go with the flow. And then it was like, well, no, your number, I don't know, use gave me a number. It was like four or something. It was terrible. Like, it was a terrible number. Just like if you are measuring your blood sugar, it's measurable so you can know and adjust. Which to me, I mean, as a doctor, that must just sound crazy. Like really? She didn't
[00:38:31] Dr. Sinclair: because I, a hundred percent went through that myself and being on this side of menopause gave me a very different perspective. When I first started practicing, I was 33 and I wanted to specialize in medical. And the majority of my practice at the time was, was menopause.
And part of the reason I wanted to specialize in it, cause I said, I want to master this before I get there, because I'm terrified, terrified of it. And, and part of that. was my gynecology teacher in school said a lot of times people have a hard time through monarchy. So when they start their period, often those women will have a hard time through menopause.
And that phrase, it was like I was in a zone or something and all of a sudden I went, what, wait, what, hold on. I'm going to specialize in this and perfect it because that is coming for me. And I want to know how to deal with it. You know, I, I remember treating women and learning a ton from them. You know, it was my early menopausal patients that really taught me what perimenopause was and how it felt and what their symptoms were.
And so that was really on the job training for me. And then when I started to go through it, there was still a part of me that was like, I don't know what's happening, who I'm not, like there was still a part of me that was clueless, that. it was hormones that were changing. And, you know, my husband really told me once, and this was so illuminating.
This was when I was still cycling, but having PMs and I was, having one of those, I suck I'm terrible at did everything, life is poop, whatever. And I was like, I don't know, I feel this way. And he looked at me and he was like, you really don't know why you feel the way you do. And I was like, no, I was, I mean, I specialize in mood disorders,
[00:40:33] Brenda: Bless his heart.
[00:40:34] Dr. Sinclair: He asked me this question and it was so illuminating. He said, you can have in your period every month now, since you were what, like 16 I'm like 13. And he says, two hormones give you amnesia? And he was being really serious and, and it was such an illuminating thing. And I was like, well, damn, I think they do.
[00:40:57] Brenda: I think they might,
[00:40:59] Dr. Sinclair: And so I think that this, that thing, we really feel to the core that we're helpless.
[00:41:06] Brenda: right. Yes.
[00:41:08] Dr. Sinclair: It's not just a quantifiable thing. You can't just go to a lab and check a measure. right. It's just like, I am helpless. I am total victim to how I feel. There is not a thing I can do about it. And it was, here's kind of sweet. Really? You don't, you don't know that really made me realize, you know what? This is funny because this is what I do for a living.
And I, I think there was like a part of me that knew, but it was a very quiet back part of my brain and the loud part that was like, no, I don't know why it was, it was screaming and wouldn't allow me to hear reason. And so I do think it's important to have these discussions because in my practice, I have had many people coming in. And tell me, well, I don't know why I feel this way. No one else that I know feels this way. And I, and I'm like re really. do not talk to girlfriends. And I had this group of friends when I first started practicing that they, you know, one day they just magically were kind of all on my schedule. And by the third time, one of them came in and was crying because she's like, none of my other friends are going through this and their lives are perfect. And I was like, wait, what? No, I cannot divulge what the other people have told me
[00:42:36] Brenda: Yes. How do I keep this HIPAA compliant?
[00:42:38] Dr. Sinclair: I well, and that's what I was like, man, we all just need to like pull you all in the same room and be like, okay, we're all going to talk about it. We are going to talk about what is going on with us, because, you know, everyone puts on a good face and oftentimes doesn't talk about what's going on. And if they did, it would be much more common and they would say, oh Yeah. you're having that yet. That's pretty menopause. I went through that. You should go talk to your doctor or do this. So I think it's that again, we just chalk it up as, oh, I'm just like really PMSC,
[00:43:16] Brenda: Yeah.
[00:43:17] Dr. Sinclair: which is true, but there's a cure for that.
[00:43:20] Brenda: And I think, like you said earlier, we tend to try to justify all of these things that are going on and attribute them somehow that we're a bad person or a deficient mother or a deficient wife or partner or whatever. And we come up with all these reasons why this is why we're feeling this way or why we're now treating people the way that we are, because it's, it can get really hard.
And what we don't realize is there is a medical reason why this is happening.
[00:43:51] Dr. Sinclair: Yeah. And that is actually So. important. And I think that in the pandemic, this has been kind of an extra level of one, a lot of people didn't get to their doctor, you know, because they were just trying to get through the day. And now of course I'm seeing much more people it's like, I haven't seen you in three years, what's been going on and they've been struggling.
And, part of it is like, well, of course, I'm teaching my kids at home now and global pandemic and all of this. That they just convince themselves. It was just that and forgot that, you know, maybe there were some things happening in their body that would changing that. Sure. I mean, are we dealing with really hard unprecedented times?
Absolutely. If your hormones are perfectly balanced, you're just going to feel gleeful and not bothered by this, but it does make it much easier and it makes you feeling like you're standing on solid ground more.
[00:44:53] Brenda: Yes.
[00:44:53] Dr. Sinclair: And I realized that when I did go through menopause and all of a sudden I was looking at what had once felt like a very chaotic situation at work and in my home life and everything was that now I just was like on a wobbly boat, was on a wobbly hormonal boat.
And once I could see things kind of standing on solid on the ground, it was like, okay. Yeah,
Let me do something about this and I felt much more the driver of my emotions as opposed to feeling like I was kind of a drift of emotions. So that I think is a big big help. So I would have women say they're afraid of menopause. I'm like, oh, come on in the water's fine.
[00:45:38] Brenda: Let's just tackle this. And I'm glad that we talked about the age thing a little bit, because I think what can happen too is let's say you're, let's say her just 40. And you are feeling some of these things and you might be saying, well, it can't be menopause because I'm only 40. And so it's helpful to know that oh yeah, it could be that. So I really appreciate that.
[00:46:04] Dr. Sinclair: Well, and I think they don't have a handful of friends that are in their early forties and they started going through some things and of course I'm their friend and not their doctor. right. So, they view me differently to some degree. And I want that. But they talk about things on like, that's perimenopause. But there is this kind of denial that it is happening. And I'm glad when I was 42 and went into menopause I, welcomed. It was like, oh, this is happening. I didn't have a stigma about menopause that a lot of people do. And and that kind of makes me sad because like my friend when I said, oh, you're in perimenopause and she took it as this very bad thing I just said. And I, it was the first time that I kind of thought, oh, well, it's not a bad thing. Why, why do you think this is a bad thing that I pretty natural hormonal change that occurs to women is really associated with some negative things. And, you know, I'm kind of like, it's amazing. Come on in.
[00:47:14] Brenda: Right,
[00:47:15] Dr. Sinclair: And part of is because I luckily was able to balance my hormones and felt much better. And, you know, for the first time I like wasn't going through the hormonal bumpiness of having a period every month. But that's not always the case. As I learn with people who can do this is not what peri-menopause,
[00:47:36] Brenda: Well, like you said, if, if the captain of your boat is like a drunk sailor taking you on this wild ride through the waves, that is not fun.
[00:47:47] Dr. Sinclair: it's not, fun, but we know. I mean, for years it kind of becomes all we know and it's like, it becomes so normal that, we just lose perspective of how did I feel yesterday? I, I learned this early in my career after my husband do you get amnesia that I started changing when I had women who I was treating for PMs I made them come with.
Right at the beginning of their cycle for follow-up, because what was happening is I was having them come in after their cycle and they tell me, oh, I feel great. Everything's wonderful. Period was fine. I think it was fine. I don't remember it. It was fine.
[00:48:29] Brenda: Right,
[00:48:29] Dr. Sinclair: And really what it was is that they just had amnesia. And so first I started saying, well, let's ask someone in your house, you know, roommates, spouse, whatever, how were you this month? Because they're going to be that objective observer. right. And people come in and be like, oh, I mean, my husband said I was really moody, but like, I wasn't, this was a really good period. And I think now we just have amnesia.
[00:48:56] Brenda: That's a really good idea. I think because we do, we kind of, we get really busy and we forget, and it's like, oh yeah, I, you know, snapped at you and like tore your head off last week. But, but that was last week. Like,
you know, that
[00:49:10] Dr. Sinclair: better now. I'm
cured.
[00:49:12] Brenda: right. right. And it's not a fun way to live for yourself, but it's also not fun for the people around you, especially if you are, you know, in, in the moms who are listening to this are trying to navigate having a very high risk child most of the time.
And so you're having to make really serious decisions about their treatment, about their mental health. And so if you yourself are losing it and so emotional. And don't have that stability. It's just, it just makes it so much harder to know how to help them, because we've got to have some stability to deal with them.
There's so many of us who are going through that experience at the same time as, all of these menopause symptoms, I'm wondering hopefully by now, if, if you're listening and you're going through this, you're encouraged to see a doctor because there is help, but let's say today, somebody who's feeling awful or they have for the last few days or weeks, is there anything that somebody could do today before they can get into the doctor appointment that I know you're gonna make? is there anything that they could do in today or in the next few days that would be helpful or is it kind of like you gotta get in.
[00:50:33] Dr. Sinclair: I think you got to get in is definitely it. And because we blame ourselves, I think it's actually a good point is that we, especially when we have someone in our family who needs help right now, To make decisions needs requires things from us that so often we feel really indulgent taking care of ourselves and it's that classic. You can't help them until you put your own ass oxygen mask on. And so, so often I have women who are like, I'm sorry, I haven't been in, it's just, things have been crazy with my kids. And I think that's exactly why it should be in. And so, you know, in. our society taking care of ourselves is really seen as this, kind of a bougie luxury and instead of an absolute necessity and as a really giving ourselves permission.
So that there's one thing that can be done immediately is absolutely giving yourself permission to be taken care of, to let someone else. Kind of help you because, you know, you become the, I've got to fix everything's on me kind of thing. And, and so we just kinda hand things over to someone and say help.
I need help. And it's it's to make you stronger so that you are better able to serve others. And I think that is the hugest dynamic that totally needs change. I, myself am a victim of this. It is very difficult for me to claim what I need for my spirit. So it's constant work in progress, but the more as women that we can really support that most humans support that in each other.
And say, Yeah. you need a mental health break or you need to go get a massage or you need this, take it and to not feel guilty. And I know when we have a kiddo that is just struggling and you want to give everything to them, The hardest thing to do is to say, sorry, my time I've got to go, you know, let someone take care of me. And so giving yourself that permission, I think is the most important thing.
[00:52:48] Brenda: Absolutely. I agree. So if you want to do something today about this, pick up the phone, call a doctor who can help you. And I won't get into all of the different doctors that you could call, but I'm sure you've got somebody, if not, I don't know, email me and I'll try to help you out. I wonder if there's like a myth about either menopause or about kind of this brain gut thing that you commonly hear that you would just like say, I would really love to clear this up once and for all for people. Is there anything like that?
[00:53:24] Dr. Sinclair: I think the biggest one has the stigma of menopause and perimenopause is that? it's just a natural progression and it is. worthy of treatment. So often women will say, oh I'm fine. Menopause. Wasn't a big deal. I didn't even have hot flashes. And I'll say, how's your cognition? How's your libido? How's your sleep? Oh, those are all true. That's menopause too. That's perimenopause too. And so too often, these hormonal changes are the only thing that is really talked about is hot flashes or night sweats. And that is just one little symptom. That's an annoying symptom. Like it is what will drive people in, right? It is so uncomfortable. It will drive someone in, but there's so many other things, you know, sleep, probably being the biggest that people just assume. I just don't sleep well anymore, but that's a symptom. That's a major, major symptom and it really affects your everything. Poor
[00:54:24] Brenda: It's oh my gosh. It's like the first domino, just,
[00:54:28] Dr. Sinclair: It is the first domino. I love that analogy. And so having that de-stigmatizing it, you know, I think that we're working, we're doing pretty well with these stigmatizing PMs. But now perimenopause and menopause are next.
[00:54:43] Brenda: yeah. It's kind of like the dirty word that nobody wants to talk about,
[00:54:46] Dr. Sinclair: Yeah, well, because it's, it's like you're old dried up out to pasture. And to me, I feel like, oh, no, this is when I finally was like, oh, watch out world. Yeah.
I'm hormonally balanced now
[00:55:00] Brenda: PRI. Fear a woman in her fifties who is hormonally balanced. Cause
[00:55:05] Dr. Sinclair: Yes. she will take on the world.
[00:55:09] Brenda: will change the world. I love it. What do you love most about what you do?
[00:55:13] Dr. Sinclair: Educating people. I think that's the biggest thing. And putting them back in the driver's seat of their own body. You know, I love it when patients come in and will say, oh, I know this is off because I'm feeling dah, dah, dah, dah. And I think, yes, I taught you that. And now you don't feel like you're drifting this sea of confusion, but really teaching people. Why their body is doing what it is and what you can do about it. So empowering people to know what to do about it is huge. And I think that's the greatest satisfaction I get is having be with, oh, I thought it was just crazy. Okay, cool. You have a plan, you know, and that's what I've had patients say. Like, no matter what I brought you, you always say you're split.
[00:56:01] Brenda: Right. Here's the plant. Well, it feels great to have a plan. And we talked about that with, with our moms about their kids. We're like, okay, you, you need to have a plan, like figure out what you can do. But we, we forget that we need our own plan. Like where's my plan. And so I think that that's really very powerful.
Because when you do have your own plan and you do feel like you've got some control over what's going on in your body. Yeah. You're just more confident in you're more able to go out and do the things that you want to do. And if that means helping your kid through this really difficult time, in a more educated and more sane way, that's, I mean, that's just, that's everything.
[00:56:43] Dr. Sinclair: Yeah,
We become better, more of an active operator of our nervous system and our mood and emotions. And that is huge. And especially when we're dealing with stress and when we have to be there for someone else who is unbalanced and that it does become, you know, it's, it's important for us. And so that's self care, giving ourselves permission for that self-care is huge because, you gotta tune up yourself.
You're gonna run perfectly for other people. But we just convinced ourselves like, no, I can keep going. I can keep going, keep going, going.
[00:57:18] Brenda: am on empty, but I am going to keep going.
[00:57:21] Dr. Sinclair: Yeah. Which we would Never, do that to our car.
[00:57:24] Brenda: never we don't even do it to our cell phone. Like if we see the yellow bar, oh man, we are finding a way to plug it in. I think this is going to help a lot of women understand what the heck is going on in our bodies. And then also you have the permission to take care of yourself and that there is something you can do. You are not just at the whim of this, that you're never going to sleep well again, that you're never going to feel emotionally balanced again.
You will, you can, but you got to take some action
Brenda
Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to go to the show notes, you can always find those at At Brendazane.com/podcast, each episode is listed there with a full transcript, all of the resources that we mentioned, as well as a place to leave comments if you'd like to do that. You might also want to download a free ebook I wrote called Hindsight: Three things I wish I knew when my son was addicted to drugs. It's full of the information I wish I would have known when my son was struggling with his addiction. You can grab that at Brendazane.com/hindsight. Thanks again for listening and I will meet you right back here next week.