the wild recovery story helping make sober high school an option for teens, with Seth Welch
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @the.stream.community
The Stream Community: private (not on Facebook) support community for moms of kids experimenting with or addicted to drugs or alcohol
Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted to Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here
Guest: Seth Welch, Recovery Counselor, Seattle Interagency Recovery High School (spwelch (at) seattleschools.org)
Show Resources:
Association of Recovery Schools
Seattle Interagency High School Recovery Campus
Ostiguy Recovery High School (Boston)
Show Transcript:
Speakers: Brenda Zane, Seth Welch
Brenda 02:43
Welcome friends. Today you are going to hear about what is going on in the world of recovery and silver high schools. I didn't even know that this was a thing. And they're awesome. But kind of as a bonus, you're also going to get to hear an incredible recovery story, which I believe offers so many golden nuggets for parents. My guest today definitely knows firsthand the lifestyle and challenges that come with teen substance use and addiction. He fought his own battle with substances starting in high school and struggled in addiction for over 10 years. He now has a master's in social work from the University of Washington, and has worked in the recovery High School space for the past six years helping kids who are working to get and stay sober in high school. And he gives them a safe and really cool place to do it.
Our conversation was deep and enlightening. First, you're going to hear about recovery high schools, what they are and how parents and students find them. And then you'll hear a story that you might be able to relate to a good athletic kid who starts smoking weed and partying in high school and finds himself addicted and in trouble with the legal system into his mid-20’s before finding recovery after a near-death car accident. I so appreciate my guest’s openness, his vulnerability. And I want to let you listen in now to this amazing conversation with Seth Welch of Seattle's interagency recovery High School.
Brenda 04:24
Welcome Seth to Hopesstream. I'm super excited that you're here today, late in the year and I know you're on school break. So thank you for taking the time to do this and joining me today so we can really bring some awareness for parents about recovery High Schools. So thank you for being here.
Seth 04:42
Awesome. My pleasure. Thank you so much, Brenda for having me.
Brenda 04:46
Yeah, I like to start my podcasts out before all this stuff that I prepped you for with a just a fun question to let people get to know you a little bit better. And that is what did you want to be when you were growing up?
Seth 05:01
Whoo, good question. I would say, definitely not the unique wanted to be a professional athlete thought that was pretty realistic.
Brenda 05:13
All right. What sport?
Seth 05:16
Oh, that's a good one. I mean, I, I grew up in the era of the great likes of you know, Bo Jackson and who played multiple sports, football and baseball. So I probably, I'd say baseball and then it and then it grew to professional soccer would have been it.
Brenda 05:36
Oh, interesting. Nice. Nice. And so how far did you take that? Did you play into college? or what was your career like?
Seth 05:46
Well, my career was short-lived. And I did play quite a bit, you know, in the earlier years certainly all through childhood, and then adolescence into the middle of high school, but that was when, you know, and my life took a turn into some challenges with drugs and alcohol. And then that turned out that when I was doing that, there were other kids were continuing to excel. And that sort of became and that was something I had to come to terms with later in my own sobriety was like, yeah, that's some things you don't get the opportunity again, you know, that kind of thing?
Brenda 06:27
Well, I want to get into that personal story and hear how that led you to where you are today. But let's start with this thing called recovery high schools. I'm guessing that we have parents out there who have never heard of a recovery or sober High School, which is a shame, because they can literally be life-saving for kids. And I know you are hugely passionate about them. So maybe you can start off by telling us why this is such an important piece of recovery for young people. And sort of what you most want parents to hear.
Seth 07:02
I just think one of the most important messages that anybody that hears this the advocacy piece of getting a abstinence-based recovery school, in every endeavor, at least starting with at least one, just one in every school district is not just it's not just the importance of it. Because it's progressive. And it's, it's awesome for the kids that go to it. It's like it's really an injustice not to offer it because there's really, that's really the I think what I want people to sort of think about is like, what if your kid? What if there is nothing like this? What if there's just no option for a kid for kids who really want to have a realistic chance to be sober? You know, and find that place among other truly sober teenagers. So I just think when you think of it through that lens of like, Okay, well, it only affects so many kids, right? In the school population of our schools, like 30 kids, right? And it might get up to 50. And hopefully, then we would start another school. And that seems like and from the public school funding standpoint, it seems like well, 30 kids, I mean, how much difference are we really talking about? We've got serious issues and all kinds of whatever. And it's like, well, what if what if that doesn't exist? What if there's just no option for kids to get sober? And that's kind of what we found is that there's just very, very little realistic options in terms of schooling that is available.
Brenda 08:40
It's kind of like, you know, they offer special education, like if you're, if your child has autism or whatever, you know, ADHD, there's, there's maybe not a special school, but there's at least a program or something that is directly engineered for them. Exactly. Okay, well, so we'll talk about all of this, but you spent most of high school and then about the first half of your 20s in active addiction. You did go to wilderness therapy went to treatment, you are getting into trouble legally. And you know, all the things that parents fear the most. But in spite of all of that, you did end up going to college. You got your bachelor's and your master's degree, which by the way is amazing. How did that come to be?
Seth 09:34
It made sense. You know, I started like, I got back enrolled at Seattle Central and I and I went back started, I got a certification to become a drug and alcohol counselor there. They created a bachelor's program at Seattle Central, which was phenomenal. That was a behavioral science degree. So I remember having a teacher say to me, so where are you going to graduate school and I'm like, man, like, hold on here. Like you don't realize what I've been through. I shouldn't even be here. He's like, well, evidently you should right, evidently you are, and he introduced this idea to me, so what you might want to do is stop thinking about each degree, as it's not to say it's not a milestone, he wasn't saying, it's not to say not to be proud of yourself, but you might want to stop thinking of it. Like, that's where it stops. And rather, it's just this continuation of this journey. And that conversation was like, okay, why not me, you know, maybe I could go to graduate school. And so I went to, I applied to the University of Washington, and I actually, in my admissions essay, I shared a lot about my experience in recovery at that point, as well, you know, I had been sober probably about 10 years, nine or 10 years, by the time I started graduate school at the University of Washington. And in the midst of all that, I worked for Wahby Community Services, they were the first ones to hire me, which actually, they hired me with an ankle monitor on so I appreciate their progressive acceptance.
Brenda 11:04
That is so awesome.
Seth 11:05
And then I got recruited into this other idea that some people from the county from the King County Behavioral Health Division looked at these models of what were called recovery schools. They were talking about recovery high schools, which there are a number of throughout the country. I mean, there's probably about 40 right now, maybe I think there's 42. So they told me about this idea. And I was like, recovery High School, huh, like, yeah, that sounds like sounds fairly far fetched. But you let me know when, when that comes around, and, and I'll, I'll take a look.
Seth 11:39
And sure enough, you know, just like you never know, like, you know, two years later, after hearing this, they said, we're starting up the school, and you're the guy. And so we started this, a partnership between interagency alternative schools and King County, took a look at some of these models that were happening throughout the country within the Association of Recovery Schools, the Archway Academy in Houston and Pease Academy in Minneapolis and various schools, Ostiguy in Boston, and they started looking at these models and saying, Okay, what are we? What would this look like to do in Seattle? So we had a classroom in a larger school, that had two teachers and two kids. And I think maybe one of them was sober. That was the beginning. That was the beginning was how it started in like, 2015, I think, maybe end of 2014, early 2015.
Seth 12:41
And then really fortunately, they, you know, the principles, you know, this amazing advocates and folks from the county, had had already collaborated, and that wasn't the end game vision wasn't just to have this classroom. It was they had secured their own site, their own independent, physical campus, which at that point, the only thing that was available was was this was the old gymnasium for Queen Anne High School, that gymnasium is a detached building that that high school has since been turned into condos. So but the gymnasium facility is right, right next to it has been, had been completely renovated to accommodate four classrooms, and serve as a small High School campus. So we moved up there. And so from 2015 to 2017, was all about building this actual sober High School working, working alongside, you know, hearing about these other schools and what they had done. And we started growing the school.
Brenda 13:51
I just think it's, it's so interesting how it kind of comes full circle to where you are coming back from treatment and going back into the same high school and all of the challenges that that presented. And that this is, I see it as such a crucial intervention point that I think a lot of kids could succeed once they have. And I'd be curious to know sort of what the makeup of the kids or students are that are in your program if they've been to treatment or not. But I think that we could change the trajectory of a lot of kids lives if we did have somewhere like this for them to go after they've been to treatment. So they're not around that same peer group. So I just think it's fascinating that it's kind of come full circle for you. But then also just knowing that people are listening from all over the country. You said there's like 40 different schools around the country that are like this.
Seth 14:46
Yeah, there are so yeah, I think we're at around 42 or 43 currently. There probably are more than that. But when I say that number that are recognized there's there's the Association of Recovery Schools, which is the National organization that deals with a good amount of oversight of, you know, anything in the realm of like, we try to have, you know, some degree of consistency and, and looking at various evidence-based practices amongst really any program that we're, you know, trying to implement and the Association of recovery schools, which you can, you know, people freely check that out, they, as far as schools that are in existence that they are aware of, right, there's probably smaller, that we don't even know about, right. But there's about, you know, around 50, or a little less.
Seth 15:36
And so what we did was, you know, we're working and looking at some of the other models, we tried to, we said, well, what is that going to look like here? Right, so we had, we had Interagency which provides all of the infrastructure for the very small campus, right, you know, we have about, right now we have about 30 students and the capacity for, you know, at least for in person, here, we're, of course, in a different time where everything's online, but the capacity at our campus for in person is probably, maybe more like 50, or 60, at the most, just because of the size of the of the school, you know, we have, it runs very similar to, to any fairly small alternative school where, you know, that we have, we've got five staff, we've got a math teacher, we've got an English teacher, we've got an online teacher who, you know, helps kids navigate a whole bunch of different online schooling options. So they're not, it's not just like, turn them loose and do all your own online work. But there's a framework for, you know, what, what we don't, we aren't able to provide in terms of, you know, big laboratory facility and, and certain classes, just because the student to staff ratio, and then myself, the drug and alcohol counselor, recovery counselor.
Seth 16:56
If people were to ask what's different about this school? So the first thing that's different is that every student coming in like this, this is an abstinence-based programs. So it's, it's really sober, and it's not just like, sober from nine to be 9am to 3pm, it's sober on the evenings, and it's sober on the weekends. And we, we have various forms of, like, you know, accountability around that most of which comes from other students, right, there's been a culture that's created where, you know, if the cool kids, right, just like a, like a flashback of looking at the high school experiences, like the cool kids here are sober, the cool kids tend to have the most time sober. And, and, and a lot of times, they're, it's not just time, but their lives have transformed and their ability to function in daily life. And so that's what's sort of the driving force behind, what I would say is the most significant piece of the recovery school or any recovery school is the culture there that is largely, you know, is influenced by, certainly staff members, but it's really the majority of which is on the on the students themselves.
Brenda 18:09
That's so awesome. I love that it's kind of like what you were saying when you were in school is, you know, you start smoking and doing these things to fit in and be cool. And so fitting in and being cool means that you're not using, especially for a kid who's really trying, you know, so have the students there primarily, have they been to treatment programs? Or are they are some of them just saying, Man, I just want out of this other environment? Like what does the makeup look like?
Seth 18:39
Yeah, so the, the composition of the student body is, I would say, half have been to treatment, probably more prep, maybe two thirds, some certainly some form of treatment, whether it be residential, wilderness or outpatient. But then certainly we have, you know, we have a number of kids that also have not been to, to treatment as well. And they came through, you know, I mean, probably the majority of the students that have come in without a referral from treatment, or sometimes referral from another school or a counselor, probably a number of those kids actually came from referrals from their friends that attend the school. And so yeah, that's been the most probably the most interesting and as, as significant as any referral sources is these young people transforming their own lives and seeing the schools involvement in that and then referring some of their friends that they not just that are just doing a bunch of drugs, but that are like they have had experiences, challenges with sobriety and are thinking about making a change, and this is a more they're seeing this as a very realistic opportunity for them to be amongst a peer group. And a community that not only helps with academics, but is just as serious about sobriety as they are helping with school and credit retrieval.
Brenda 20:14
I just know that the challenge of like scraping up all of the random credits that are scattered around on the floor from all the different programs and different attempts, and that can be just a barrier in itself, because it's so confusing and overwhelming. So finding that community and finding somebody who can help you navigate that is really great. And then for parents is, you know, I think as they're looking at options, and especially ones who have kids coming out of wilderness. I know, a lot of times the recommendation is that they go to a residential facility, but the cost is just incredibly prohibitive. So how do kids come to you? Like, do their parents usually contact you? Or is it through a counselor or drug court? Or what's the what's the path? I'm just wondering how parents find, like, how did they find a Seth in their city?
Seth 21:10
Yeah, so the referrals that we receive are, I mean, they just, I can't even say one source more than than any other because it's, it's very equal. Very distribution. It's definitely a number of people, I would say, I mean, in a perfect world, if everybody could go to treatment, and patient treatment, and men come directly to a recovery school or a teenager, right, that at least this experience challenges that would see them go to treatment, the first place. That's perfect, but since that's not quite reality, we have a number of different avenues for which kids arrived, whether it's, you know, certainly sometimes there are counselors that have heard about our program, there are parents, there's, certainly people in the recovery community now have seen more of a presence of younger people, right, we just did the range of age that you might find in, in various sober support groups. So they have, there's a bit more of a presence. So now people ask them, how'd you get here? Well, you've been sober, you're 16. And you've got two years sober, or three months, or however much. We've got, you know, currently, in our school, we've got probably, you know, we have a range of people with a month sober, clear, clear out to nearly three years, next month. So quite a range.
Seth 22:40
And I would say it's the same way for the referrals, we get a lot of different pathways, and we do we try to do, you know, a decent amount of outreach while still being respectful to that gets tricky, right? Like, that's one of the dilemmas is like, How do you do? How do you convey this message about this is the most profound thing that I have in terms of, you know, a structured, sober young person, community that is productive, in essence, you know, in the sense of, it's a high school, but also is equally if not more supportive for young, you know, teenagers actually maintaining having a realistic opportunity to maintain sobriety, because they're amongst peers that are doing that. It's the most significant thing that I've ever seen, in terms of that, you know, as far as that sort of structure, but, you know, in terms of, I can't even tell you how much outreach we've actually done to just raise awareness that this exists as a resource for families and, and communities. And one of the things that gets in the way is that like, the most, the best way, really to tell to talk about the significance is, is to hear it from kids themselves. But you know, it's also teenagers, right? It's also teenagers talking about challenges that they've had, that you're not you wonder about, well, will they want to tell this story? 10 years down the road, you know, or whatever, that kind of stuff.
Brenda 24:12
So, yeah, that can definitely be a hard ask of young people. And speaking of challenging times, when you just take us back, we'll spend a little bit of time going through some of the things that you've mentioned, and that I've mentioned, and share some of your experiences that led you here to where you are today.
Seth 24:34
Yeah, sure. So, born and raised in Seattle, Washington went to went to public schools all throughout the area when I you know, I was a pretty, pretty decent student for whatever subjective determination that is, is I was pretty in line with, you know, going to school and seeing the importance of that and came from you know, a pretty interesting upbringing where my, my mother and father had split up when I was very like a baby. And my dad, my, my father, my biological father actually is gay. And so that sort of changed the course of childhood a bit. And so fortunately for me, by the time I was four or five years old, both my mother and father had found wonderful men.
So I ended up with three fathers. You know, and nobody planned that I don't think exactly, but it turned out to be a really sort of unique upbringing. And I had plenty of wonderful things happen in that time, but those families shared time between both households. And then, you know, fast forward to high school. And this is just one of the most key things I think that is, certainly in retrospect, I walked out of a fairly small, you know, middle school situation into, into Nathan Hale High School, which was really, really fine school, I just had no idea what I was getting into. And all of a sudden, you know, there's 1500 kids, and it's very just not even realistic that, you know, the staff is going to have very, you know, be very equipped to, you know, do a whole lot of personalized, you're not in class. And so therefore, we are going to give a personalized call to your family, you know, so I just didn't know that skipping was an option. As soon as I found that out, all of a sudden, it became really attractive to, you know, hang out with what I thought was kids that were cool. And they were skipping class, and they were smoking weed, and it kind of fell apart really, really quickly. You know, by this time, certainly this time, my freshman year headed into winter break freshman year, everything had fallen apart.
Brenda 26:56
Wow, so that's pretty fast. That's pretty fast if you were doing okay, in middle school, and then that's a pretty quick tumble, what was your? What were all three of your dad's and your mom kind of going through at that point? What did they notice what was happening?
Seth 27:10
You know, that's a good question. I mean, I think they noticed changes. But here that, you know, here is anybody who's a, you know, parents of a high school or and they're just kind of thinking, while they're getting their bearings, they're trying to figure out what's what's really that realistic, you know, that they're not clear. Well, one thing they were not clear on at all, is that how much school I was skipping. And that took a while, you know, it took a lot longer, maybe I guess, then it should or would have preferred to, they would have preferred Oh, but you get pretty, you get pretty clever and crafty as a, as a kid that's trying to remind the system, you're just like, Okay, I know what time to be home. So I can get the voice message about covering my tracks. And it just got pretty sneaky, you know, and I just made it really difficult for them to really get a very clear pulse of like, just how far that when they realized I was off track was probably by the end of freshman year, maybe even early sophomore year, where it's like, oh, no, your your your child is truant, you're trying, you're facing court, because he's missed so much school. And there was only one reason for that, which was pretty much daily marijuana use and everything that accompanies that, right? People are thinking, well, weed is not the end of the No, but just like when you're smoking weed, what are you doing? Instead, you're not just doing real wholesome behavior is exactly what you know. So there's other things that accompany sort of, at least for us that that sort of culture.
Brenda 28:39
Yeah. And so for you, it sounds like because this is such a crucial point that parents have so many questions about is, is my child trying to, like numb out some trauma? Or are they you know, like, why did they start doing this? And it sounds like for you, it was kind of like, I just want to fit in? I want to hang out, this is easier than maybe going to class? I mean, was there? Do you feel like there was something deeper? Or was it just like, Hey, this is kind of the cool thing to do?
Seth 29:10
You know, that's a really good question. I mean, there I had faced some, some pretty challenging early childhood experiences. And so that, that there was some for sure, for sure, there was some trauma there. So definitely feel for, for many of us, facing you know, even that or stuff much more challenging that I've come across. But I you know, to be fair, I just, you know, it's kind of a biased, I guess, opinion, I supposedly but I, I sort of think that I don't really honestly know how much of a role that even played I mean, whatever we faced in the past, you know, certainly that made it a little bit more uncomfortable for me, in my own skin, you know, so I kind of had this experience of like, probably the best way that I could explain that is that one I found a mind altering substance, in this case marijuana or not that long later, you know, alcohol that just made them all that much more appealing to be like, Oh, wait, wait, did you mean I can have this experience, right? Feel? Pretty much no inhibitions, no social anxiety, that's very attractive. It's like, Oh, you immediately. And this is what this is the piece that I think was sort of like, pick your poison, so to speak. It's like, nature versus nurture. I don't know, some combination of the two that made that is sort of feel like very early on. And this, these are sort of signs, I think is like, Oh, I don't want to just have this on the weekends like, and it's hard to get your maybe your kid to be honest about this. And it's kind of a lot of introspective work, I suppose. But my thinking, and many of our and a number of my peers was like, Oh, I kind of want to be like this, like all the time, not not super, not super loaded, not like just totally in talks inebriated. But just like, I can just be like, take the edge off a little bit like, you look at it, like happy hour, you're like, you know, if I could just sort of take the edge off. That would be great. Pretty much in all situations, school home, that kind of stuff. And then of course, happy hour, you know, extends into into long hours.
Brenda 31:21
That is really interesting. I think that that is a crucial point that parents get really curious about and really frustrated with is why, you know, why did this start? And then also, there is, like you said, and you know, we're in Washington. So marijuana is legal for recreational and medical use. But a lot of parents are at this juncture where they're saying, I don't know, is that the lesser of the evils? Is it like, well, he's just getting high on the weekends or a couple times during the week? I don't know, is that really that bad? And I think what I'm hearing you say is, it can happen really, really fast that it moves from just on the weekends to during the week and then on to other substances. And we could probably do a whole nother podcast on whether it's a gateway drug or not. But what I'm hearing is, it can happen pretty quickly. It's not like this is something that, you know, if they're smoking marijuana, that it could just be that for years and years, which I think is really important for parents to hear, because it is so hard to know what to do.
Seth 32:27
Yeah, that's absolutely true. I think I think that's a very good point. I think that certainly for those of us, myself included, to where there were some adverse childhood experiences, for sure. Which, you know, that applies to many kids. But you know, I would say probably what, you know, without getting into super detail, it was fairly significant what I had faced as a child, it despite having a great upbringing, just had some stuff happened. That was really unfortunate that certainly did that make me more prone to have an addictive personality to want to get outside? Absolutely. However, this can, it can really sort of happen to anybody. But really, I just think it was so much based on what I thought was cool, honestly, that kids hate that, even though that terminology just sounds so like cliche, and I cool, I don't care about what cool, but actually, we all kind of care about what cool, it just changes what it what we think is cool as we get older and stuff like that.
So I would definitely say that, you know, the things around, you know, that my family tried to get me they knew I love sports, right. And so they tried to have me plugged in even pretty immediately upon getting into high school with that kind of structure, which I think is hugely important, whether it's sports or music, or some various forms of artistic just, you know, after school plans for those afternoons when you get out at 2pm or 3pm. That's a lot of time afterwards. And if that's not accounted for, we will some kids will be really proactive and like find things to do that are actually productive. And then there's a whole nother group of us that will fill that time with what we think is appealing or cool and entry, which is what I got put into cross country running. They just they weren't to date, they had nothing on some of the kids that were honestly, you know, maybe selling drugs or just partying, basically, you know, at all hours of the day. That was just no, yeah, there was no competition there.
Brenda 34:31
That is very true. Something that I talk about a lot is just keeping them active because that downtime is so dangerous. It's like what's gonna, something's gonna fill that time. Exactly. No matter what something's going to fill that time positive or negative.
Seth 34:47
So, typically, a kid is coming into high school, they I feel like if you look close enough, they do have interests. We do have things that we really liked. It's not like we have no passions and connecting with, you know, already before during that summer, that transition of going into middle school into high school, which is super kind of anxiety-ridden oftentimes anyways, connecting with some with even just a handful ideally, but even if it's just one or two older middle-aged middle sophomores, juniors or seniors, of people that your kid can look up to, like I will never forget, I had such a profound experience with a guy that I ran cross country with, whose name was Lincoln, he was a senior, and I was a freshman. It was such a profound experience, even though I went off track that I wanted to name my kid that we just had after him, you know, just so sad, because I had always felt like, you know, even though I'm grateful for my life today, what if I had stayed that course you know what I mean? You just wonder, right?
Seth 35:55
Like, even in the utmost gratitude, you just think, because they were the kind of person that he was still cool to me. But he was balancing the demands of high school in terms of, you know, academics and, and family with some degree of a social life. And I hadn't really seen many people balanced that in a way that was kind of speaking my language. So there's somebody out there, that is speaking your child's language, it's just, it's just a matter of like figuring out who those, if we don't kind of point them in the direction and expose them to people that can speak that language to them and get them connected, they're going to find the alternative. And that might work out or it's just a huge gamble.
Seth 36:39
And so what that culminated in was, by the time you know, two years into high school going into, between sophomore and junior year, I had family do an intervention for me, and basically surprised me with about a month-long wilderness program, which kind of like, I don't really like to use the term tricked into going, but it was kind of that, you know, because I just wasn't, they were just doing their best. By that point, they had had serious concerns. And this is what the other thing that parents, I think is important to know is that, I mean, realistically, that's kind of scary things, you know, some parents are really close with their kids and probably have a better lens of what's actually going on. But my parents, by the end of sophomore year, were extremely worried and they didn't even know the half. Not even that, but, even what they did know, gave them plenty of concern just for, you know, how late I was out at night and very irresponsible behavior. And clearly by that point, I was looking at not only truancy, but I wasn't I had very few credits and stuff. So they're already trying to come up with all these different ways that I'm going to, you know, regain credit retrieval programs and stuff like that. So I went to this treatment program in the wilderness in Oregon. And I was, you know, again, here's something that I'm pretty sure insurance did not maybe insurance covered a portion of that, but I don't think so.
Brenda 38:08
No, it doesn't cover it, I can tell you, from experience.
Seth 38:17
really again, that's just one of the layers of, you know, the privilege that is even required to even participate in something which really went like this, which was really a fantastic program. You know, you spend the first week pretty much in denial of why you're even there. And then by pretty rapidly when you're when you're out here and you're hearing the other stories of other young people about 10 other kids in this and you end up oftentimes being the average, right? Like just like any many situations where it's like you have some kids were there that I hadn't done probably nearly as much as I had. And then there were some that were quite a bit more serious that had already, you know, gotten involved in the criminal justice system and stuff like that.
By the end of that month, I came out about as transformed as you could at least appear to be like I was on board with sobriety, I had done process groups, I'd like come out to my family about, you know, this, this ultimate disclosure, like at the end of the, you know, the end of this little wilderness program, you come clean, it's like you come in this like confession style way in front of these other kids and their families and tell them, it's kind of like, well, what did you learn? It's like, well, a whole lot, but let's start by this confessing all my secrets and, and now there was great efficacy that like it was just really sort of a relieving thing. And I told him some really, you know, significant things that were hard for them to hear there was a lot of tears.
And this is the key about this was that again, right kind of going back to these themes of I'm all the way on board with sobriety, as I think many of us were there, were all returning to various areas throughout the Northwest. And I, I maintained sobriety for about six months after that. And that was a pretty strong time in high school. But the key difference was that at no point in time, when a kid or when I am thinking I'm going to be sober, I get cognitively that yes, drugs are bad. And they are, there's one common denominator that's been in this case, marijuana or alcohol that's been involved in the decline of my high school career. Yes, I'm on board with that, I get it.
But the thing that I didn't get that was just completely over my head was, you don't stand a chance at staying sober for any for any real long period of time, if you have the exact same peer group, and that was another, to me, that was not, I might have nodded my head along when people said something like that, but I'm not leaving my friends, you know, that's just pretty inconceivable. And sure enough, they were supportive of me for a little while. And they're like, yeah, you know, the sober version of Seth like, okay, that's cool, that's new. And then that newness, you know, and the appeal of that wears off about 100 days in if that, you know, is like, okay, well, what else? What's next, you're just going to be the sober guy that sort of tries to speak the language of treatment, and try to convince us that we also should do it, which is, of course, what I was doing. And, and really, none of them did, or hardly any of them.
Seth 41:38
And, and by six months and a few days, I got bored of it. And I'd never found a community, right, I was I just was never exposed to a sober community of other young people, I thought that the only kids that really didn't do any sort of drugs whatsoever were, you know, had a stigmatized view of what that was, was just kind of, for lack of a better term, kind of, like square-ish, you know, here these are, you know, very stigmatized, obviously, totally wrong, but just kids that had never done drugs at all, we'd be the only ones that were not doing them now. And that wasn't true, but I didn't get any exposure to to that community.
Brenda 42:18
So you had just to clarify, so you came out of wilderness and you went back to your same high school?
Seth 42:23
I did
Brenda 42:24
Yes. Okay. Yep. And that is so common, parents are left with very few options, either send them to a $10,000 a month residential treatment program, you know, somewhere outside of their state, or at least out of their city, you know, which is private and not covered by insurance. Or you could move to a new public school district, which normally, what I found is kids are gonna find the drug kids anywhere. They're everywhere. Or you put them right back in the same school. Yeah. So it's just the the options are really excruciatingly frustrating as a parent, having been through it for years and years, it was like, Well, what am I supposed to do with this kid? There's no foster system for him, I can't ship them off to somewhere else.
Seth 43:13
Right. That was absolutely, yeah, that's, I mean, that's just such an important point that I mean, pretty much most research that is available, is going to indicate that, you know, a young person coming out of treatment, in this case, it was privileged enough to get to even go to it in the first place, whether it be a residential or wilderness program, or, or even outpatient setting, right that a lot of kids up in because we minimize our use, or, you know, we don't, surprise, surprise, we don't tell the truth about how much drugs we're actually doing. And then we end up with a lesser level of care than probably is adequate. But either way, going back to that exact same environment, or like you said, something similar to it, man, that's a that's a tough one. It's there's pretty much nothing that's just, it's an uphill battle right from the very beginning.
So that well, and to be fair, even my parents, even they really did try to get quite creative. I went back to the same school, but then they realized they quickly put together like this, this doesn't seem very sustainable. So they tried to find another very small, almost like one on one tutoring program where I could get caught up on some credits and that was cool. I had great relationship with some of the tutors and whatnot. But that wasn't a community, you know, that was just like some check off a box and then they tried to put me in into Running Start then that actually it worked out for a few classes but quickly, as soon as I started, you know, smoking again at all after a little bit after six months, all that fell apart, and I dropped. I think I dropped about 10 classes over the next couple years as I tried to manage, you know, going from running start doing a couple classes at the high school. And then trying to do sports. It just was not structured enough. And I quickly sort of fell through the cracks,
Brenda 45:07
There's so many pieces of that, that I think are important. Just to highlight the, obviously, the impact of going back to the same peer group, because we do I think, as parents forget how important friends and peers are, it's not, it's not like it is when you're an adult, you're a little bit more, you're more context for life, when those are your people, those are your people. And so going back to them and trying to fit in, or like even like you did, to try and maybe help them a little bit is, is going to be a big, huge uphill battle that right, being fresh out of treatment probably isn't the time to try and fight a really big battle. Because I hear that from so many parents, but he's so great. And we want him to come home because we miss him. And you know, there's a lot of like, you just want your family to look like it's supposed to look again. Yeah, and there's so much stigma in people knowing that your kid went to treatment.
So then when there's an option to have them come back, and you can kind of look like and even for a while feel like that, that everything's fine. Again, it's very, very tempting to do that into not listened to. I think it's even the data i've i've read that it's like 80% of kids who come back from treatment into the same environment end up relapsing in some form or fashion. So I think that's super important. And then also, this what you mentioned, and I just want to highlight it for parents, and I try to do this all the time is, if your kid is telling you, they're doing X, Y, and Z, they're probably doing more. Kids usually highly underreport what they're using, because they don't want to freak you out. They don't want to scare you. They don't want to make you more worried. And there's some embarrassment, I think about it, too. So if they're saying I'm just smoking some pot in the weekends, you may want to just dig into that a little
Seth 47:02
yes. And seeing this 1,000 times at this point
Brenda 47:06
anyway, just wanted to highlight those two things, because you said them and you've lived them. And I think it's really important for parents to hear that. So you're back to your old shenanigans, then.
Seth 47:17
So yeah, come back. And that is a key thing is that sometimes you'll hear this well, you know, treatment didn't work or wilderness or whatever. And I, that is not, I do not believe that I know that, you know, it's obviously, like every program that's pretty much ever been created, particularly for young people. Sure, it's largely dependent on there. It's the essence of counseling, their relationship, right to report, it's built with the staff members at any program is largely probably going to determine, you know, maybe how well that program goes for a kid or whatever. And that comes from both sides. It's not just all on the staff at all. But I had a fantastic experience. And that, even though I didn't stay sober that time, you know, for forever, I was able to draw back on those experiences.
Many times, I think, during that experience of my first experience at treatment, for sure, was the first time I had a counselor, we're walking on some trails and stuff like that. And he told me, he was in recovery. And he had a story that I couldn't argue with, like more it was, it was more severe than or at least I thought that you know, then I was looking at especially because he had just done some drugs that I hadn't, I hadn't done actually I've still never done and I connected with him. And it was the first time that I ever thought maybe, maybe this is what I'm supposed to do, at 16 years old. I thought maybe I could be a counselor, you know, maybe that's what I'm supposed to do.
But I also had this lurking truth in the back of my mind. That was like my conscience saying, Well, yeah, yeah, that's very, very true. You definitely could do that. And in order to do it, you're gonna have to be sober, like, all the time. So even when I'm at my best, I'm like, fresh out of treatment, I'm raring to go, I like kind of had this like, well, yeah, but like, if that's a job, you know, a lot rides on that I can't be. I can't be shaky in my sobriety at all. If I'm going to be a drug and alcohol counselor, even then I was thinking like that, and that was true. You know, it's like, no, that's not something that's not a good place to be, you know, on shaky ground with your own sobriety when you're trying to help other people with theirs, I guess, right.
Brenda 49:31
Right. But how amazing that at 16 you even had that thought, even if it was just once for 15 seconds. That's, I think a true testament to how treatment programs can work because it is true that a lot of kids go to wilderness mine included and, you know, then went on for two, three more years after that in complete chaos and deep drug use, but those experiences still played a huge role in his eventual recovery. And so I think that is also kind of a golden nugget for parents to realize is if your kid has just come out of treatment and is now back into some issues, drug use or whatever, that doesn't mean that you just wasted all that money or that they just wasted all that time, that's still really, really, really valuable time that they spent, you know, in being clear and, and sober. Getting that input from, from the counselors and the staff. And they're gonna use that later. It's kind of like, tucked in, in their back pocket. And it's gonna come out at some point.
Seth 50:35
That's absolutely right. I mean, that catchphrase of like, we're planting seeds. And sometimes that can sound like a cliche that's like, well, this is what we hang our hats on if the if the absence, you know, rates aren't what we want them to be. But like, there's really a truth to that. Yes.
Brenda 50:55
So well, then how in the world, I'm so curious to hear how you go from that to being somebody who that little voice in your brain at 16 turned into to doing what you're doing now?
Seth 51:09
Yeah. So and I'll just give the sort of the more rapid version, which I think is, you know, I'm certainly not unique in this where I, I ended up, you know, stayed sober for six months. And by the time I was 17, now, I completely fell off, you know, the sobriety train again, and I started developing this tolerance, or it takes me more to get high. So I'm seeking out this, the, this sort of high that I used to previously get, you know, by the time of, by the time I was 19, I found myself in a similar situation where I was running through an intervention.
Actually, this is kind of a crazy connection. But the person who really helped spearhead the intervention for me, was one of my childhood best friends. His name is Ben Haggerty, the artist who's formerly known as Macklemore, of course, and we had known each other since been close friends since we were very young and, and he was one of the people who had also been like trying to get even before any of us, really, anybody in our community that I recall, just about, had been dabbling in this sobriety thing, since we were basically sophomores in high school, because he had some similar outcomes in high school, we just fell way off the tracks, you know, and if he couldn't, if he wasn't sober, he was noticing this connection, he was just a little ahead of ahead of his time, in a lot of ways, evidently, right.
But he helped stage an intervention for me, again, I think he had a hand in the other one as well, but certainly at 19, you know, came to my family, and was like, dude, you know, he were really worried about his safety. He was he had missed the idea of like, it was more he had already at 19 years old, he had this very realistic assessment of life, which was like, I'm going to lose my friend, he's going to die. He's either an overdose, or he's going to die driving a car. And it's, and I have to have the courage to come to his family, and tell them, this is the severity of it. And I'm willing to receive the consequences of my of one of my best friends potentially hating me for a period of time.
That was the catalyst for me, then again, going back into treatment, and I was the youngest person in the adult facility. And they're giving me these tools. But man, I latched on to a couple people. I remember one guy saying to me, he ended up being my closest friend and treatment. He was a few years older than me. And he was like, what are you in treatment for? And I'm like, well, I mean, what do you think? I mean, same as all of us, right? Drugs and alcohol. And he's like, No, but I mean, what legal problems and I was like, I mean, I don't have any, I'm only 19 years old, I don't really have any legal problems. He was like, oh, you are good to go. And I internalize that. That verbiage just was like, Yes, I am. oh, my gosh, I'm just, I'm sitting pretty, you know, and this is fine. It's all good. I'm gonna do great. And I still was trying to absorb what I could from treatment, but ultimately, that you know, and just my own readiness, right?
Like was just sort of altered that was like, I'm looking for a way to put myself and like, this isn't that bad, see, really not that serious? Like, I'm going to try this sober thing. But if it doesn't work out, right, it's not I'm not like these. I don't have legal problems. And so, I spent from 19 to 25, racking up legal problems, doing exactly what I had heard was like the next, the next level of a rock bottom or whatever people want to call that. It all fell apart on February 12, 2009. I'm 25 years old and I ended up in a very significant situation where I was speeding in and out of a in and out of like what we call brownouts or kind of in and out of consciousness, essentially, and crashed into the back of a semi truck and did a did a 360 on I-90, tried to flee the scene. And that's a whole nother set of charges, which was unbeknownst to me.
And right there, everything changed, right there was like this is, you know, I had already had some experience with driving under the influence and even getting caught for it. And this was a game-changer, just like, overnight, I'm going to be in and out of jail for the next couple years. That was the beginning of, you know, real, what I would kind of consider real sobriety at that point was like, I became willing, oh, my gosh, this is way more serious than I had ever imagined. And now, I don't know what else to do. And you know, there's a reference to this, this idea of a jumping-off place where you, you can no longer envision your life doing what you're doing. Because clearly, this is where you end up. But how can you even begin to wrap your mind around? Sobriety, a lifestyle of sobriety, which I also have never known that's even more imaginative, which just seems very, very far fetched.
Brenda 56:34
Right, that had to have seemed a little bit like a fantasy world at that point, because you had been in it for so long. And how do you imagine a life without that now?
Seth 56:45
Absolutely. And now, my real belief, my real concern is that even if I do get sober, I'm not going to amount to anything anyways, because now what I've got a criminal record, or I've got no skills, I've got no no degree, nothing, you know, so it just seems extremely daunting.
Brenda 57:05
Can I ask what was going on with your parents during this time, because this is mostly parents listening to the podcast, and it's so painful to watch your child go through this. And I'm just curious as to what was going on, where your parents kind of constantly at you, where they letting you do your thing, because there's, there's such a fine balance as a parent to not enable your kid and help them, you know, and try to save them from all the consequences of their actions. And then at the other extreme, just sort of letting them go and saying good luck with that kind of what what was going on with your family?
Seth 57:47
So family, they, I mean, they, they had tried in various ways to support me all throughout this progression, right. They, I think that the best way that I can sort of sum that up is that, you know, they clearly organized and, you know, basically constructed that the two times that I went to treatment, 16 and 19. And they were largely behind that, and largely behind certainly funding that and just everything right, and, and the thing that I think is hugely important, is that, in that if somebody is trying to get sober, if somebody is certainly if they're fresh out of treatment, that is definitely a good time for well thought out support, right? And what I mean by that, I know that can be a sort of a challenging thing to what does that look like, right? So anytime that somebody comes out of treatment, and when I came out, there's a plan, right? There's a, there's a, there's a discharge summary, there's a plan, and we will help you, you know, we're gonna, we will be there for you, but we're not going to do it for you, right, if you make this plan, and you say, it's largely gonna have to do with structure, it's largely gonna have to do with finding a new community, hopefully, of sober people no matter what age you are.
And, so they really helped along those lines, but eventually, what I started doing when I started to veer, you know, like, oftentimes for me, it seemed to be around that six months, sometimes it's shorter, sometimes it's longer for people, and I start to veer off, you know, I don't really need to do this anymore. I don't need to do it. Anyway, I'm going to kind of go back as soon it's almost like this. You know, I hate to have it be so cut and dry. But for me, I can't put enough emphasis on the moment that I not only it's not like being perfect, but as soon as I veer from finding a new community, finding a sober community back to old friends, okay. That's kind of that's like a really serious shift. And I know, we don't always know when that's happening. Because we're not honest about it. We're certainly with our families. But so you can start putting together who you hang out with, Oh, really? Where did that plan come from? You know, we start veering back and sure enough, where does that lead to?
I think that around enabling, if there's some sometimes come back to one thing that I had gotten a second of several DUIs. And the second one, I ended up being, you know, would have probably been in jail in King County jail for the better part of a couple weeks, maybe like two to three weeks before my court appearance. This is now the second time, you know, it's like the insanity of doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different call my parents again, thinking, I'm just thinking, I'm quite the tough guy. And I call my parents crying day one in jail. And I'm talking about how serious and sad and how never going to drink again, and they bailed me out. And I think that's, that was an area where I think they also came back to, and we're like, Yeah, probably shouldn't have done that, you know, what I mean? And I can't make the recommendation that parents let kids sit in jail, there's all kinds of controversy around that, right. But in my case, that was I, it's just sometimes the reality of like, if I didn't get a natural consequence, which that was, I was just not going to take any learning from it. And the difference of this time, you know, and granted, I wasn't attained by that this time that I got sober.
But there's, I think there's still a lens that can appreciate. Well, how ironic it is that this last time, when I was, I just turned 26. But this last time, when I got sober, they didn't do a bunch of stuff for me, right, I got myself, I kind of found the resources to get myself in treatment, I paid what money I had left from my deployment to get into treatment. And then I went to jail after being six months sober, because the courts, you know, happens like that, you know, go you don't do all your stuff right away. You know, I think I think the biggest thing that parents can do, one of the biggest things is, you know, apart from if treatment is a great option, then certainly helping a kid get into it. But then afterward, exposure to young persons over communities, right? So because then, because we're not what we're not doing is saying, Don't do drugs, don't hang out with your old friends. That doesn't work. But what could work is here, we're going to make it pretty hard for you, and pretty uncomfortable to go back to your old peer group. But we will make it much easier to do is get involved with some of these communities of sober young people will start giving a little more lenience, right, when it starts to come to maybe, I don't know, maybe curfew or times to hang out, you start feeling a little bit sense of autonomy. And you start seeing other sober young people that you're now attracted to, like, oh, they're not that different from me like this is, this is kind of cool. Like, this isn't what I thought, you know, I'm laughing with some kids, I'm making some connections. So that's where I think you know, that exposure to those communities, because oftentimes, a kid is not just going to find that on their own, because we have all these preconceived notions of what that looks like.
Brenda 1:03:08
That's really helpful, because parents, I think, do have a hard time figuring out like, what can I do, you know, this is, this is such a hard thing. So I like that concept of make it easier to hang out with the kids who are also trying to do the same thing and be sober, and make it a little bit more difficult. If you want to go do something else, we're not going to help make that easy. Because a lot of times it does feel black and white, like the enabling thing, well, we're not going to do this, or we're not going to do that. So just this idea of worse can make it easier for you, we're not going to do it for you. But we will definitely encourage it and make that easier. So I really love that.
And I think you're right about jail, it. It's so painful for parents to go through that. And, you know, unfortunately, I've been through it many times, and my son has said that he had one of his biggest lightbulb moments waking up in jail, you know, and that may be for you, you know, your experience with the accident. And that was sort of like, a lightbulb moment for you. And you know, I think it's important to know that light bulb moments can happen also in a jail cell. So not easy to do for sure to not bail your kid out. But also not necessarily the worst thing if you can't do that. So, final question, we could probably talk for seven more hours, but what do you love most about what you do?
Seth 1:04:42
Well, before I, I will definitely answer that, and before, I want to make sure to say you know, honestly, it's totally fine to share my number. That's a lot of times the ways that young people or families or guardians or whoever get ahold of me and say hey, What would it look like to get a kid into this school? And then we talked about that process.
And then you know what I love most about this? I think that the transformations that I've seen both amongst you know, we've now had several 100 students in the time that we've been in existence. And I've never seen this level of transformation for you, for teenagers, actually getting sober, actually maintaining what people would consider pretty long term sobriety in any other setting, as this is the most significant transformation that I've seen. And it's not just for the kid, right? As we know that somebody, somebody gets sober. And if they're a part of a community, which largely from what from my perspective is what it actually takes to get sober in some capacity. Then, it's not just them, it's their family's life. It's other people that they come into contact with, I would say we have received as many referrals, as we have from any other place are from kids referring their friends, right?
So now we're talking about a young person that has transformed their own life probably was doing pretty reckless things before and if anything, you know, were taking away from, they're causing harm, right, they're causing harm on many levels. And now they are carrying this message and actually, you know, doing all kinds of service in the community, helping expose other young people to this opportunity. And the things that we do outside of school as well. It's just, you can't even put a price. It's just invaluable. It's absolutely priceless. I love that. I love that the most getting to see there's so many things to celebrate, I mean, each within the last, just during this fall, when we've been an app and a pandemic, of we've watched five, six students celebrate either one or two years, that's just in the Fall.
And now we've got we, over half of our school has over a year sober. And it's not to say, that just speaks to the seriousness of these kids about what they're doing. And they're seeing, they're seeing the results of it in the rest of their life. And certainly, it's about quality more than it is quantity, and they're appreciating that one thing that I have to mention that, you know, recently, there's this thing called an alternative peer group, and I would invite people to research that. So it's often the acronym is APG, an alternative peer group is something that supports people in the community, it supports young people outside of school hours, right? So they're going to have activities is like a Boys and Girls Club, for teenagers in recovery. And so they're doing all kinds of activities, they there's going to be, you know, probably a therapist that comes in there's, it's where you get a chance to have some of these young people that have now transformed their lives have a year two or three sober, and now they're coming back to function as a mentor.
And so we just started, Seattle's first APG, just really this summer, this fall. It's called Bridges. And I'm on the advisory board for that. And we've got, you know, we've already got about 25 or 30 kids involved in that it's just a great support for families. This is the that's the ultimate. So there's, there's a good amount of overlap, right between this. And not just in Seattle, but between a recovery school and their local community partner have an alternative peer group, which is its own separate organization. But there's a lot of overlap between the students or the participants. Right. So that's another great thing that's now available as well.
Brenda 1:08:56
So important, so important that after school, that after school time, is super important. So wow, this has been so incredibly amazing. So much information, I think that parents really needed to hear from someone like you who has been through it, and out the other side. Because I think a lot of parents and I hear this from people who have gone through addiction and substance use too is a lot of parents at least feel like yeah, he did it. But my kid is different. My kids, this my kids that and we always come up with a reason why our kid isn't going to be the one who changes. And so I think it's always great to hear from the mouth of somebody who has been there. And maybe you even felt the same way to say well, you know, why? How am I getting changed and what do I have to change for so I just thank you for your honesty and openness to share that because it is so so helpful for parents.
Seth 1:09:56
Yeah, it really is. And the thing that I would say about recovery schools, they are gaining more, as are collegiate recovery programs. By the way, these are like sprouting up all over the country where they've got sober dorms and they've got these programs that they're recognized, you know, people are actually acknowledging that the significance of use on college campuses and stuff like that, and that some people are able to navigate that. And then there's a whole bunch that just aren't at all able to negotiate that and it gets in the way of them getting a degree and stuff. And, and so we have this amazing opportunity that I think just the final thing that I want to say, I think it's so significant that every single district have an option of a recovery school a truly sober one. Right.
And when I say abstinence-based, I mean that like that's, that's the goal, right? Like, it's not at all saying that no kids ever relapse. Of course, that's ridiculous. That's totally not right. But it is being really transparent about that's the goal, and these kids are demonstrating that's not a grandiose objective, you know, that is happening, these kids are actually accumulating uninterrupted sobriety for a significant length of time, much more than a lot of adults that, that we know. Right. And so, I think it can be selling them a little bit short to say, Well, you know, the relapse is part of recovery and something No, it's that's not really true. relapse is a part of my journey. Right, and some of our journey. But that's not, because that's saying that everybody will for sure relapse if it's part of recovery. No, that's not at all what's happening, right. Some people are able to get involved in communities like this and programs and support groups and maintain sobriety for a long time for the rest of their lives.
Seth 1:11:53
And even the ones that do, we've had students that have had several relapses. And in many cases, they go back. So it's like, we look at what's missing, okay, maybe they need to, you know, we just had a couple of kids get out of residential programs I just saw another one is going in today, you know, so we create these collaborative efforts and partnerships with local treatment centers, so that you're enhancing this continuum of care, this coordination of care, right? So and many of those kids will come back to us when they are ready, or, and obviously, a young person, a teenager, also is being freely afforded the autonomy to say, you know, what, I'm not, I'm not ready for this level of commitment right now. And that's important, too, right? Because this, it's not for everyone. But, until a young person actually gets exposed to a sober community of young people, they have no opportunity to even be attracted to it at all. They have something that floats around in our imagination like, well, this Yeah, that'd be cool. If it existed, and it does exist. It's just the importance of, of getting to have that experience of seeing it in person. Wow, this isn't, you know, this really happens, there's really a community that's that, that I didn't even know about that exists. And a lot of times parents don't know about it either.
Brenda 1:13:19
Right? I think that's the key is that it's really this hidden gem? And would it be, like if a parent is listening, and they know they don't have one of these schools in their district? Is it something like would you call the school district and just start that conversation? Or how do parents sort of advocate for the creation of a recovery school if there isn't one in there? Because if there's only 40 or so in the United States, that means there's kind of like, not even one per state? How do you even start that?
Seth 1:13:50
That's just such, that is the question of all questions. I mean, I think what exactly what you said is, you know, the start wherever you can, we've seen parents, and we've seen the PTA, I mean, anywhere, wherever you can start to get that conversation going. That's the place to begin, right? And then and then you get, you start having that conversation, you start raising awareness. And you start really, it's kind of like it, you know, we talked about getting in recovery, and how far can you get, without addressing that there's the existence of a problem that currently exists. And then you start moving towards a solution without identifying it, as we are doing and many other aspects of our society today is like, okay, let's acknowledge that this is a problem. let's acknowledge that there are not very many realistic pathways for young people in particular, to access sobriety and then maintain it. So let's talk about that. And what are we doing to what's being done to address it? What are we offering to students that have these we know that that the numbers are even much higher than are widely accepted?
As far as kids that are, you know, using abuse disorder schools and, and the prevalence of it, and as soon as That's right, you know, raise it to two principals raise it to City Council, the more that it starts getting addressed and discussed, the more that each given district can talk about what would like to what would it be like to do this? Right, if we're creating alternative schools, for populations of students for which traditional comprehensive high schools are not very realistic, otherwise, these wouldn't exist? Why? How is this not one of the first and foremost, you know, substance use disorder being a mental health disorder? How is this not being addressed as a viable option? Why isn't that not at the forefront of the conversation?
Brenda 1:15:51
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So even just asking the question, why aren't we doing this? And I love that you started in a gym with two teachers and two students, because I think a lot of times, it can just feel like overwhelming Oh, my gosh, how would we ever start a school and when you think of a school, you think of, you know, a campus and 400 kids, but you're saying we started with two students and two staff in a gym? And I think that's awesome, because that means anybody can do it.
Seth 1:16:19
Exactly. We've all got different options, you know, different resources are available with it within each district. And a lot of times, they're just not being utilized or not being, you know, not being offered is available. And there's, there's funding sources, right, that can be secured. That just depends on each district, we're not even necessarily considering because, and this is the final thing I'll say, you can look at it from one lens and say, Well, you know, until we get enrollment of a couple 100 students or whatever, then maybe how do we justify it right, between the staff to student ratio? Well, my question is, you can clearly see the importance of having a sober option for young people. But what if we don't offer that? What if there's nothing? What if there's absolutely nothing? Is that not an injustice to kids and families to offer some viable solution? Because I think when you when you really start to peel back the layers, you get pretty scared to recognize how little feasible options are actually being offered.
Brenda 1:17:29
So, so true. Well, I can't thank you enough for your time. And all this input and your experience and just raising awareness about recovery school, high schools, so critical. And again, I'll put all of these resources in the show notes so you can go people can go there and grab those ,and I will let you get on with your day. And I hope you have really, really happy holidays with your family.
Seth 1:17:56
Awesome. Thanks so much for the opportunity and for anyone that's listening and please feel free to do some more research anyone about recovery, high schools, alternative peer groups, and even if and if you would like to reach out to me directly.
Brenda
You might also want to download my free ebook called “HINDSIGHT, Three Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted To Drugs.” It is packed with information that I truly wish I had known back in the darker years with my son. And so I share it now in case it might be helpful to you in your journey. You can get that at Brendazane.com/hindsight, and I will put a link to both of these resources in the show notes as well.