why do they do what they do? answers on addiction from one who’s lived It, with Stacy Eakman (parts 1 & 2)
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @the.stream.community
The Stream Community: a modern, online space supporting moms of kids with substance use and mental health issues
Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted to Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here
Guest: Stacy Eakman, President, Eakman Construction
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Show Transcript:
SPEAKERS
Brenda Zane, Stacy Eakman
Brenda Zane 01:56
Welcome to season two friends. It is hard to believe that it's been a year since I launched hope stream with just my story and a whole lot of naivete', which was probably a good thing because I didn't know what I was getting myself into with hosting a podcast. But now these episodes have been listened to well over 3,300 times, which is absolutely mind-blowing to me. We have listeners in over 98 cities and 10 countries. So the need is obviously there. And I'm honored to be able to share this information and these resources with you wherever you're listening.
I am launching into this season with a gigantic episode. It was so deep and the learnings are so good that I made it a two-parter. Stacy Eakman has a story that will be incredibly inspirational if you are the parent of a child who is actively struggling with addiction because it really shows that regardless of the depth of the addiction and lifestyle a person can change. Formerly addicted to heroin and cocaine and living out of his car, stealing from his parents, Stacy is now the founder and president of Eakman construction, a luxury home builder here in my hometown of Seattle, Washington. I wanted to talk with Stacy and ask him questions that many parents have about various aspects of addiction. And he was gracious enough to answer them all, honestly, and very thoughtfully.
In part one of this two-parter episode, he shares how he started misusing substances when he was in college. And you'll also hear the struggles that led him to a desperate situation in a Safeway parking lot where his family had to make probably the toughest decision of their life. It's an incredible story. I can't wait for you to hear it. So listen in now to Part One of Stacy's journey.
Brenda Zane 04:02
Welcome, Stacy to Hopestream. I'm super excited to talk with you today. And we have sort of a different format than I'm used to. So I'm excited to try that out. But I know you're an extremely busy guy running a very successful company with lots of moving pieces. So I appreciate you taking the time this afternoon to chat with me for the podcast.
Stacy 04:25
Of course. Thank you so much for the invitation. You know, I like to help any way I can, and talking about things helps me and hopefully, it helps other people as well. So I'm excited.
Brenda Zane 04:38
Yeah, it absolutely does. It really, really does. And especially I think to hear from somebody who has lived experience in substance use and all the different struggles that go along with that because it's not just the substance use and I think sometimes people get caught up in that is they think oh this person's addicted to drugs or whatever but they don't realize is there's a whole ripple effect that goes along with that. And so having somebody who's actually lived in the center of that, I think, is really great. So why don't we start off if you want to just sort of tell us who you are, what you do what your life looks like now, just to get an idea of who you are and what's going on in your world.
Stacy 05:20
My name is Stacy Eakman. I am president and owner of Eakman Construction Company, we are considered a small business, but a decent-sized construction company that builds custom homes for people all over the Puget Sound. My day to day life is, is running the company. I go home at night, and I'm married to my beautiful wife, Danica, and I have a son, who I see every other weekend that I really enjoy spending time with and, and I work a lot and I love to work. It's a passion of mine. So you know that that's who I am now, that's what I do on a day to day basis.
Brenda Zane 06:04
And I've seen on your website, some of the homes that you build, and they are incredibly gorgeous. What led you to sort of focus on high-end homes and focusing there instead of having sort of just a more general construction company, was there a reason behind that?
Stacy 06:23
I grew up my dad was a contractor in Yakima, Washington, my whole life had a small company that did really high end remodels for people. And I watched, I watched his company evolve from doing kind of whatever to pay the bills to doing the projects he really enjoyed doing and some of the ways that he looks at you know, some of it is rubbed off on me about the way he looks at the way things go together and the way things are built and how passionate he is about doing things the right way. I think that I took a lot of the good stuff from that. And then, you know, I think that that also held him back a little bit, held his company back a little bit. And so I've tried to grow through that and have a different perspective about the way a business is supposed to run. But the way things go together, I really enjoy well-built things and high-end finishes and those types of deals. So that's how I got here is I worked with dad for a little while before I moved to Seattle. And I was on that was like at the pinnacle of the projects he was doing. And we were doing some unreal projects that I still haven't had, yeah, we do beautiful work and love the houses we build here, but nothing like the projects we were doing over there. So I'm excited to continue to grow and do those nicer and nicer, more custom projects.
Brenda Zane 07:53
That's so cool. That's great. Well, that kind of leads into a question that I have, I'd love to just ask to let people get to know you not that they're not going to get to know you very well during this episode. But what did you want to be when you were a little boy, when you were growing up?
Stacy 08:09
I was 100% sure that I was going to be a major league baseball player, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind. Or my parent’s mind. Or anybody who told me any different I made sure they knew that they shouldn't have a doubt in their mind that I was going to be very rich and very famous. And I was going to be a major league baseball player that that was that's all I never thought I was going to be. Which I think ultimately, you know, was a problem. But we'll get into that.
Brenda Zane 08:46
Yeah. And do you remember how young, like when did you start playing baseball?
Stacy 08:51
I started playing baseball when I was little, you know, probably five or six on T ball and like just youth sports leagues. But I remember I got invited to go to a baseball camp in the summer and I had never been away from home and I was a homebody small-town kid. Mom didn't work took care of us. So I was really connected to mom and dad and going away for a week even just 45 minutes away. It seemed like a humongous deal. And I had decided that I wanted to be a catcher to go to that camp. You had to have your catcher’s gear and dad worked really hard. We didn't have piles of money, catchers gear nice catcher's gear. You know, there's a cost to that. And my dad, we went back and forth, back and forth. And I said, I really want to be a catcher. Dad said if we go and buy you catcher’s gear and you go to this camp, you're a catcher. And that's it. Like you're, you're gonna be a catcher and I remember that moment, like deciding I'm going to be a catcher. I'm gonna go to this camp, even though it's really hard for me to go away from home, I was scared. I was like the youngest kid there. And I just decided at that moment that I'm going to do this, and nobody's going to tell me any different I'm not going to talk myself out of it. And I'm going to be a catcher, I'm going to be a baseball player. And this is just what I'm gonna do. From that moment on it was life.
Brenda Zane 10:22
Wow, isn't it interesting how you can know something like that at such a young age, not only that you are going to play baseball, but that you are going to be a catcher? Like that's pretty specific.
Stacy 10:35
Yeah, I think that was tied to a really didn't want to let dad down. I didn't, I just didn't want to spend his money on some catcher's gear and then come back from that and have changed my mind. He, he made it clear that it was important, and it was an investment. And I told him, I looked him in the eye, and I said, Okay, I'm gonna be a catcher. And I wasn't gonna go back on that.
Brenda Zane 11:05
Those experiences are so pivotal, sometimes in life. And you wonder, I don't know if you've ever had this conversation with your dad. But sometimes I think as parents, we say things. And we mean them but we don't mean them like, literally, you have to do this for the rest of your life. You know what I mean? I wonder if your dad really meant like, this, is it? Or if you had come home and said, Yeah, you know, I'll try this. But I may not end up doing it long term. What do you think that the reaction would have been? Do you think he really meant it? Or was this something that you know, as a parent, you say something to your kids, and you mean it, but it's not like in cement?
Stacy 11:46
No, I absolutely. 100% My dad is like, the nicest human on Earth. Like I 100% know that if I would have came back and said that he would have said, oh, well, you tried and we would have gone on to something else. But I remember kind of feeling like, he was challenging me a little bit too like, he was trying to help me grow up and teach me a lesson that, hey, when you say you're gonna do something, you do it? And of course, I was like a normal kid that always wanted something. I always wanted a new bike or new shoes, or whatever it was at the time. And so, you know, just like, like, every parent does, okay, fine. I'll do I'm gonna do this for you. But here's what you got it, you got to promise me that this is serious. And so I kind of felt like it was a challenge. And I just kind of felt like, I'm going to show it, I'm going to prove it to them that I'm that this is real, right. not joking.
Brenda Zane 12:47
Incredible. That's, I think it's good for parents just to talk in the back of their minds. Sometimes we say things and or we do things and maybe the way that it's perceived by our kids, even even as a teenager can be very different than what we project. But thank you for that. That's very, very, very fascinating. And like you said, I think that does, because just because we've talked before, I think that does probably have something to do with your story. So what I would love to do is have you share your story through substance use and the issues that you dealt with. And then I have a very special list of questions that I have curated from the moms in The Stream, which is a community that I run for moms of kids who are struggling with substance use. And I think if you would be in the room with them, you would be completely attacked because they really had a long list of questions that they wanted to ask somebody who has been in it and then out the other side and doing well now and has perspective and has some of that ability to look back and really be thoughtful about what you went through. So why don't you take us through your story, kind of the lowlights and the highlights. And then we'll get into some of the questions.
Stacy 14:07
Absolutely. You know, like I said, I grew up with an amazing family, Mom and Dad, that they're there we were top priority traditional American family as people would say, dad worked. Mom stayed home with us. When we were young mom would volunteer at the school so that she could make sure we were learning fast enough and all of the things that you imagine a perfect family might be. My sister turned out amazing. Always straight A's and everything, you know, never had trouble. Perfect kid. And I was similar. I didn't get straight A's. I wasn't great at school. But, you know, I wasn't always in trouble. And, you know, I was a good kid. In my younger years and then you know, baseball was kike I said, it was my life. And so most of my story until after Community College is all around baseball, and I loved it, it was my life, it was my identity. It was who I was.
And so as I continued to grow, and then play on elite, baseball teams, around town, and in the state, it became more and more apparent that or, to me, at least, that I was really good at baseball, and this was just gonna be who I was. And so school wasn't a priority. And people, you know, I was a little bit cocky and rude and thought that I was just the best thing on earth, and people would, you know, teachers and people that I would look up to would try to say, Hey, you know, you probably shouldn't act this way to other people. Because what if it doesn't work out? What if you aren't a major league baseball player, like, you have to come back here and face these people and see these people, I was so cocky, I would just look at them and say, Well, I mean, you know, I'm going to be so it doesn't matter. And, and so I was a jerk, which is looking back is really unfortunate. You know, I don't have a whole lot of friends that from my younger days, and I think it, it's because of that, but you know, through high school, I was good. I didn't party, I didn't drink. I was the kid that went to big parties and like, found all of the baseball players and made them go home. So we didn't get in trouble, focus, all of that, I was just really good kid, I thought I was really focused on what I was doing, you know, got to get to the end of high school. And of course, I was like, the best in the school of baseball. And I would play on city teams in the summers. And I was one of the best on those teams. And so everything was looking great. But I didn't get drafted into professional baseball out of high school like I was sure I was going to. So ultimately, I chose to go to Big Bend Community College. Now that community college is one of the better for baseball, I was excited about it, and had multiple baseball players come out of Big Bend and play professionally. So I was excited. It was a new coach, I thought everything was gonna be fine.
Once I got to that level, I started looking around and realizing that everybody on my team was the best or one of the best in their city, wherever they came from. Reality started setting in a little bit that will maybe I'm not that good. I worked pretty hard for a little while. And then ultimately, I kind of probably out of shame and worry that I said all this stuff that wasn't going to come true. And everybody that told me I wasn't going to be a major league baseball player was right. And I was wrong. And just all of this pressure started weighing on me and I think that I ultimately just kind of gave up and I quit working hard. And I started drinking a little bit and I started smoking marijuana a little bit. And before long I was smoking weed every day and drinking partying like crazy and you know, still had a decent couple of years and playing baseball. At that point I stopped, you know, base baseball was done.
18:35
I came home went back to Yakima got a job in town, a carwash, I think was my first job there. And I was really ashamed. And I really felt like I let you know, I let myself down. And I was pretty embarrassed to see people even though looking back like they don't, they didn't care. Nobody ever came up to me and said, like, I told you so you know, like, but I thought everybody was thinking that I thought I was cool enough that everybody was thinking about me way more than anybody was ever thinking about me. And but really, ultimately, the real heavy part was I wasn't the only one that was completely bought in to being a major league baseball player, my dad and mom but really, my dad was so bought in and he believed in me. He drove me all over the state and flew me all over the country and he would go with me to places you know, different trainings and things to learn. I just really felt like I let everybody down. And I wasn't going to be able to buy them this beautiful house that I promised him since I was 10 I was going to buy them and all of the things that I was sure I who I was didn't actually happen. At some point, during that phase of my life I started taking pills.
It started with Vicodin and then it wasn't long, I got my hands on some OxyContins. And it wasn't long before I was doing OxyContins all day and couldn't really function without and then it wasn't long before I was snorting OxyContin. I again, I was probably pretty naive, but I held that together for five, six years where people really didn't know that I was on drugs. I think that people around me knew that something was up. But I was like a maintenance guy, I would, I would get some OxyContins and I would do a little bit a bunch of times a day. It wasn't like a hey, I want to get loaded. It was just staying kinda high all day. You know, that went on and on. I moved to Seattle and ended up being heavy in the pill scene and went back to Yakima and said, okay, I'm gonna get my life cleaned up.
I remember I bought a bunch of Vicodin so I wouldn't be dope sick. So I could like wean myself off, and I got home. And I did that. And I thought I was gonna be okay. And I had, I kind of got clean on my own got off pills. I mean, I was still smoking weed and drinking. So I was far from clean. But I dated a girl that had a whole bunch of Vicodin underneath her sink. And I started taking a couple here, taking a couple there, she didn't notice. Next thing, you know, I was just running and gunning to get off to the races. And, again, I held that together for a while, but eventually, I couldn't afford the OxyContins and the Vicodins and whatever I could get my hands on, I couldn't afford pills. I remember the day, you know, I was the kid that said, I'll take pills. Well, I'll never snort them. Okay, I'll snort. But I'll never inject anything. I'll never go to a dope house. You know, I've got a classy drug dealer. You know, I like had all of these like benchmarks of what is the difference between me and a real drug addict, you know? And I remember the day I called a friend, a guy now, and I said, man, I've got $300 bucks, and I don't get paid for two weeks. I can't do pills. So tell me about heroin. How do you do it? What's the deal? And he's like, well, there's all kinds of ways to do it. But you know, the best way is to inject it, it lasts the longest, blah, blah, blah, you know, all these things?
Brenda Zane 22:33
A 101 on how to use heroin. Right?
Stacy 22:37
And I said, all right, well, yeah, that'll get me through. My intention was okay, that'll get me through, I get paid in a couple of weeks. I'll figure it out. That day, I injected heroin, or he injected it for me. And I never did another pill again. I never smoked weed again. I didn't drink again. I was heroin all day, every day. For a couple of years.
Brenda Zane 23:04
How old were you at this point just for context.
Stacy 23:07
I think I was 26.
Brenda Zane 23:10
So you've been you'd been in the substance use world for a while, but sort of in a semi-functioning way? Do you think your family would have said, yeah, he's got a drug problem, or were you really that good at hiding it?
Stacy 23:28
I actually don't think I was that good at hiding it. But I think that my folks didn't want to believe it. So they were really naive, kind of intentionally. They had to know that something was up, you know, I was skinny, I didn't eat, I was never around. I couldn't be around that much. I was always like, needing to go. I was always broke. I was always broke. They were always loaning me money. And at this point, you know, at some point in there, I guess 25 probably, I started working for dad. And it was like, I was just always broke and they knew how much money I was making, but I just never had any money. And dad would always give me money when I asked, or put gas in my truck for me. He was, they ultimately they were like paying my truck payment because it wasn't getting paid and their name was on it as a co-signer. I talked him into like, you know, pretty much buying the truck for me because my credit was shot, so if they would have been paying attention, or looking for it, I guess is a better word - they paid attention to me, they loved me to death, but if they would have been looking for it, I'm sure it was pretty obvious, you know.
Brenda Zane 24:39
So now you're in Seattle, you're fully into heroin. Or no, sorry. You're back home.
Stacy 24:47
Yeah, fully into heroin and not staying at mom and dad's as much and living at home. Not going there as often. I remember I walked by - my mom's office was right by the back door of the house where dad and I would come in and take our boots off every day. And you walk, you've got to walk through her office to get to the rest of the house from that mudroom. And mom's desk was right by the door, and she would sit there doing the books for dad's company, and I walked past her every single day for probably four or five, six months and never spoke a word to her. Like she didn't look at me. I didn't look at her. So, you know, heartbreaking for my mom.
Brenda Zane 25:33
I bet her heart was just breaking
Stacy 25:34
Every day, I'm sure she was thinking is he gonna say hi today, like, and I'm sure she didn't want to talk to me either. You know, I was a jerk, I was always in a bad mood. So anyway, at some point there, I'm staying out more because I'm embarrassed to go home. At some point in there, I started stealing money from dad, I would go to his debit card at night. And I knew his PIN code. And I would take it and I would go get cash out of the cash machine. And then at some point, like, Mom did the books right there. So the business checkbook was sitting on the counter, I was stealing checks and writing checks to myself. And so I really didn't want to go home because I knew that at some point, they were going to figure it out dad was going to notice that two air compressors were gone and three chainsaws were gone. And he was gonna notice that I had pawned all his stuff. And mom was going to look at the bank account, notice that these weird checks to Stacy are coming out. And then they're going to look at the other bank account and see that I'm pulling money out cash out on the debit card. So like, I just wanted to avoid the whole thing and they wanted to, you know, take me to dinner or have me over for dinner. Hey, where are you at? Are you coming home tonight, we'd love to eat dinner with you. But I always thought it was a setup like they were going to corner me because they had figured it out. So I was avoiding everything. And I remember, I would still go to work and work with my dad all day, which was so miserable because I was so scared. You know, every time his phone rang, I thought for sure it was my mom. And she was gonna tell that what was going on. I'm doing so much heroin at this point that I can't stay awake. I'm like walking, at work, nail bags on, and falling asleep standing up and like, in full motion up on ladders, like asleep leaning up against the ladder. So I said, well shoot, what do I do now? So then I decided, well, I needed upper. I didn't say well, I need to stop doing heroin. I said I need to add something to wake me up.
Brenda Zane 27:54
let me just add to this misery
Stacy 27:56
Yeah. And so I went to the same drug dealer that I spent all the time at doing and buying heroin and said there was a whole bunch of crack floating around there all the time. And so I started smoking crack. And that's the moment I mean, yeah, I fell asleep walking and all these crazy things that you would think that I would know that my life was a wreck. And everybody knew there was something wrong, but it was quick once I started smoking crack, and doing heroin if it wasn't screwed to the floor, I was stealing it. And I was running and gunnin', my life fell apart in you know, months in two, three months. My life was terrible. I mean, I was about six foot two now I weigh about 205 I was six foot two 141 pounds. I was sleeping in my truck in random parking lots. I was falling asleep in parking lots and the fire department woke me up one time because I was like leaned over, it was like the middle of the day. And I remember I was just couldn't stay awake. And I like pulled into a parking lot. And because I knew I was gonna fall asleep and get in a wreck and just fell asleep like in the middle of the parking lot. And then somebody called and said, I think this guy's dead, right? Like I'm laying over the steering wheel. Fire Department shows up and there's a crack pipe on my lap. And you know, I didn't get arrested. How I don't know. I just liked it. Oh, yeah, good, just tired, worked a lot and left. It was bad, right? I mean, things were bad.
Brenda Zane 29:39
And essentially, at this point, are you thinking I'm a drug addict? You kind of crossed over to that knowledge at this point?
Stacy 29:48
Yeah, but I'm okay with it, right? Like I have no intention of, well, I have an intention of someday maybe getting clean but not today. No way today.
Brenda Zane 30:02
And I think that this is a perfect spot to ask one of these questions is, you know, obviously, now you probably listen to yourself say that or I listened to it, or a mom listens to their kids, or they see their kid in the situation. And it's like, Why? Why wouldn't you at that point say, Oh, my gosh, I'm all these things are happening. I need to change this, like, what is the conversation that's going on in your head that's not saying that?
Stacy 30:33
Ultimately, the answer to that is like, I couldn't, I absolutely couldn't, and it wasn't, I'd say, well, I didn't want to today, if I had wanted to, I couldn't, you know, I was completely helpless to the drugs. And the thought of all the damage I've done, that I pushing down with drugs, right, and I'm not facing the problems that I've created. Because I'm on drugs all the time. The thought of actually sobering up, multiple thoughts, one, the fear of being dope sick, is, it is the biggest fear, right? Like being dope sick is the worst, and you are sure you're gonna die. And you feel like you're gonna die. And you would do anything to not feel that. So that's one fear. And then, okay, you get through the sickness you come through, and you're not dope sick anymore. And then, like, reality is there, my life is destroyed. I have no credit. My parents, you know, like, they're probably so ashamed of me. I'm still not a major league baseball player. I'm all of these things of like, once you get sober once you get off of drugs, or stop drinking, or whatever your thing is, the next couple of years are way worse than the last couple of years of doing drugs.
Brenda Zane 32:13
Right. Right. It's not like sunshine and unicorns when you stop, because you have to deal with all of the damage that you did along the way.
Stacy 32:21
All the damage. Oh, and it is. It's heavy. I mean, you've heard so many people, and you've said so many things. And I mean, I can speak for myself, I just so ashamed. Like, this is not who I am. And so in that moment, and I remember saying it to two people, like, at this point, like, what are my options, I'm just gonna ride this out. You know, like, I mean, the drug dealer was like, hey, man, I'll keep selling it to you but things aren't going so good. You're not looking so good. You're doing way too much, this is a slippery slope. I've seen it before you're, you're gonna end up dead. And I would look right at him and say, you know, I'm gonna write it out. You know, this is me. I'm not going to treatment. I'm not getting straightened up. Like no way. Are you kidding me? So to answer that question of, and I know that, you know, I've talked to lots of few parents and like, my parents, and everybody, like, the answer to that question is always that we people like me, can't, you can't quit, no matter how bad you want to you just can't.
Brenda Zane 33:38
Yeah, that's great. Thank you for that. I think it's, it's so hard to understand when you're working from a fully functional brain. Right, and you haven't experienced all of that you haven't caused all of the damage, it just seems so logical, just stop doing it. And that's what's so frustrating to parents, and I'm sure grandparents and siblings, and everybody who's watching this is it just seems so logical. And I so I appreciate you saying that because it you need to hear it from somebody to say, but I couldn't. Physiologically your body is dependent on these drugs. And then even if that wasn't the case, you have to deal with all the crap that you know, is going to be sitting there when you sober up so yeah, not not as easy as it would sound.
Stacy 34:36
Yeah, that's, it's impossible.
Brenda Zane 34:41
So many people who are in addiction are taking these huge risks of either risking their life like you were with taking so many drugs or stealing or just doing these things that are incredibly risky. And you know, you look at that and you say why would do you do that? And I think there's, for younger, you know, kids who are in the 16, 17, 18, you know, under 23, or 24, there's the brain development that hasn't happened yet. So you're working with that. But also, it sounds like you're just not even thinking about that this is a risk, because it's just not even really, in the scope of what you're thinking about.
Stacy 35:25
Yeah, this is a perfect example of the reason parents can't change their actions. can't love a kid out of this, or change the trajectory of where this is going by their actions. And it’s because, no offense to you Brenda, or any of the moms, but we know you don't understand, right, and we can't explain it to you in a way that you're ever gonna understand. And like that question, in itself is like, right, the answer, like why would you take these risks to somebody who's been in that situation? Like, I'm looking at that person, like, you just don't get it. And you're not going to. I can't explain it to you in a way that you're ever going to get it? Right that you're just, and that's okay, I don't want you to ever have to get it. Like it's a terrible way to be. But the fact is, is that the only people that get it, and the only people that can help people like me, are people who have been there before. And that's a challenge, right? There's always that in the back of my mind, like, this guy didn't do drugs, like I did drugs, he must not get it cuz he got sober. Right? Like, he must not get it, he didn't really have a drug problem. You know, he didn’t do this like I do it, you know? So, I mean, ultimately, the answer to that is we do it because it's impossible to do anything else.
Brenda Zane 37:04
Yeah. If you're asking the question, then that means you're in no way ever going to understand it.
Stacy 37:10
Yeah. And that's okay. There's a lot of people out there that do understand it. There's a lot of help for people like me and kids, of the moms that are listening, like you're there's plenty of help out there for your kids. It's just not you. Right, you can't help them. And it's devastating, like my mother, like, you know, my poor mother, my poor father, ultimately, they didn't help me or hurt me at all right? They couldn't make it any better. No matter how hard they tried.
Brenda Zane 37:44
Okay. And we'll get to that a little bit more. Because there are some specific questions around that. But let's continue. So you're now at the point when your dealer is telling you that he's worried about you.
Stacy 37:56
Yeah. And around that time, Mom and Dad had figured out that I, you know, it all came to light that I had been stealing. At some point, I kind of covered it up and told him I had that I was addicted to pills, to Percocet. I think I told him, and I because of a tooth problem. I had, you know, I made this story up. And so then they got me on Suboxone for a really short time. But I quit going to those appointments because they make you pee in a cup to see if you're actually doing the Suboxone or still doing drugs. And I was just trading the Suboxone for what I wanted. Like it was just all coming down. And every once in a while I would stay at mom and dad's house. I had my own room upstairs. Mom and Dad weren't allowed to be in there. I mean, I'm 28 years old, like you can't come in my room.
So it was a workday. I had a cigar ashtray. And I would do heroin in the bathroom. And I had its own bathroom. And I would smoke my crack in there in the bathroom. And then I would carry this big ashtray out and put it underneath the bed. Before I went to sleep and my alarm on my phone. I left my phone I was all messed up and I left my phone in the bathroom and somewhere between the bathroom and the bed. I don't know if I like fell down and passed out or like couldn't go any further and just laid down. And that ashtray had my crack pipe in it - I would always make up my needles the night before so I could take them to work with me so that I could go on the outhouse and use them. So my heroin was all made up and see In the ashtray, and I crack rocks, crack pipe. I mean it was like Scarface, it was like the movies, right. And I didn't hear my alarm because it was over in the bathroom. And dad came upstairs to wake me up to go to work. And I was just, you know, passed out on the floor. And this all this crap strung out all over the floor by that ashtray. My dad just standard says, Hey, and I look up at him. He says, You're not going to work today. And I didn't get it. Right. I'm like, lost and my dad... I'm like, what do you mean, I'm going to work. He's like, no, you're taking the day off.
Stacy 40:40
He left for work and about 20 minutes later. you know, at this point, I realized like all this crap's out, oh, shit, he saw everything. He texted me and said, was that heroin? And I don't know if I responded or not or whatever. But of course, I'm out. I left, right then, gone. And then I just slept in my truck for a couple more weeks. And then I went home one night, late at night, to get some clothes or something. And I heard a rustling downstairs and I look out the window. And my uncle Dan, who's at this point 15 or 20 years sober. He had pulled in behind my truck, so I wasn't able to get out. And so I knew that, you know, it was about to get real. Went out there, Uncle Dan yelled from downstairs and I went down there. Mom and Dad never came out of their bedroom. But uncle Dan said, all right, here's the deal. You can go to treatment tomorrow, or not. But if you don't, you can't live here anymore. You can't stay here anymore. You can't come here anymore. The truck, your dad's gonna give it back to the bank, he can't afford to pay for it anymore. You broke the family, your sister, you know, my sister had a daughter, who I was really close with. And she had another one on the way at the time. Your sister's not gonna see you anymore, and he's not gonna see you anymore. So you can go to treatment. Now with me, I'll take you right now we'll stay in a hotel over in Seattle. And we'll check-in in the morning. Or not, but you got to go. And I'm not giving you a ride. And you can't take your truck.
And so I'm thinking well, alright, that's ok, I'm not going to treatment, like, fine. You're nuts, I'll walk somewhere. I'll get somebody to come pick me up or, and then he said, oh, yeah and by the way, we're shutting your cell phone off. Because mom and dad were paying for that. I was like, no, hold on a minute, hold on, hold on. I don't need to go to treatment. I tried to talk my way out of it - talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Eventually, I talked uncle Dan into waiting until morning to go instead of going right then. I made up some story about how I owe a bunch of people money and didn't want to leave that and put my family in jeopardy, blah, blah, blah, you know, so uncle Dan drove me to the dope house to supposedly pay these people back. But I just went there to get some stuff to hold me over.
And I remember telling uncle Dan and my dad, there's no point, like, I'm 28 years old. It's over. Like, I'm old. It's not like I'm 18 and I can turn my life around, like what does getting sober look like? I go get a minimum wage job. And I live at my parent’s house and my dad was like, that'd be great! Like, that's fine, whatever, you've just got to get cleaned up. But I was certain that there was no success in my future, financial or family success, or I was never going to be like, looked at as a normal human being, I was always just going to be this drug addict that screwed his life up. And, you know, because I hung out with those people, those lifetime drug addicts, that's who I got, you know, my drug dealer was like 60. And he was surrounded by 50-60-year-olds that have just been doing drugs their whole life. And that's just who I was gonna be. I just accepted that was who I was.
44:47
Ultimately, the next morning, even though I tried every way possible, I just had no other option. And so my intention at that moment was not like, hey, I'm gonna go get sober. It was okay, I'm gonna go for 30 days, what's 30 days, right, I'll get sobered up. It'll buy me some time, it'll buy me back a little bit of trust. And I can come back and I won't have to, I'll be able to still, like, do drugs, but just not to the extent that I do on now and I'll be able to hide it. Just buy me some time I have no other options have a phone or no truck, if I go to treatment, I get to keep a phone, I get to keep a truck. I get to keep a job, I'll have somewhere to stay when I need to stay somewhere. So I just had, like, I had no other option at that moment. And so I said, alright, let's go.
So we went, Uncle Dan paid for the treatment. You know, I stayed for three days, four days. I was terrible. Awful to everybody. And I left in the middle of the night, ended up in the woods somewhere with this old lady that was also on treatment. I couldn't get any drugs. She got some, I didn't have any money, of course, and then I got mad. I can remember one phone number. And it was my buddy, Luke. It was his parent's house, who knows how I can remember this phone number? Who knows. I knew this guy in college, right? We were best friends in community college, I knew his parent’s phone number because he was staying there for a year or something after we got out of school. And I would call him there because he didn't have a cell phone. I would call and check-in and say what's up, but I can remember his parent’s house phone number and I called that phone number because I had no other options at 10, 11 o'clock at night.
And I left a message because Luke didn't live there. His parents are in bed. His dad is long time sober. He's got a lot of years in sobriety. And Luke, also went to the Salvation Army and got sobered up. I left a message and I had gone into the Safeway and I had stolen a prepaid phone. I got them to set it all up, get it all ready. And then I took it and a can of chew right off the counter and just walked out in the parking lot. I was I was crazy. I'd lost my mind that night. And Luke called, he called that number back and said, where are you? I said I have no idea where I actually am, I just I know it was a Safeway. About 45 minutes later, he showed up and we negotiated what we were going to do. And then it didn't take very long for my uncle Dan and my dad showed up. Treatment had called them and said that I had left.
And we're in the parking lot. And I thought, oh man, I hit it big, dad's gonna take me home. I begged and I pleaded, I'm fine. I'm good. I'm four days clean. Like, I feel great. Everything's good. You know, I'm making it up. I'm sure I'm sweating and probably reek. You know, I've been puking and everything else, so dope-sick, and dad looked at Luke and said, what do you think we should do? Luke said, I don't think you should have come. I mean, right in front of me, right? Like this is all happening like, I'm not standing there but I'm standing there. Luke said, you get in your truck, go back to Yakima. Dad was like, what are you gonna do with him? Luke said, he's gonna get in my car, or he's gonna sleep out here. Like, this is it. Yeah, he's gonna sleep right here or get arrested, who knows. And Dad, I mean, it just broke his heart, but they got back in the truck, and they left.
end of part 1
Part 2
Brenda 01:15
Welcome to part two of Stacy Eakman’s incredible story of transformation. We left off in part one with Stacy in a Safeway parking lot, trying to negotiate leaving treatment and being faced with the choice of going back or sleeping outside in the parking lot. He was dope sick, broke, standing in front of his dad and his uncle. And that's where we'll pick up.
Stacy 01:44
I was screaming and crying. "Just take me home." And they just left. And then I got in the car and I went with Luke and it was a Friday night, I continued to detox, they called treatment and said hey, we're gonna bring this kid back. They said no, not till Monday, not till the counselors here, we have to reevaluate. And I laid on his folk’s couch in the basement, so sick, so miserable, tried to go home, tried to ask my sister for a credit card to pay for a cab to go to Yakima, like, what is the matter with me? I told her I was stuck on the pass and the cab driver figured out that I didn't have any money and he had called the cops and he had like, I made up all kinds of stuff when I was really at the 7-11 next door to the house, you know, like just crazy. And my sister was just devastated and said, I can't, I'm not going to do it. I can't I'm so sorry. But I can't, if you're going to jail, you're going to jail. That's it. And I went back on that Monday morning. I went back, Luke bought me a McDonald's breakfast sandwich and an orange juice and dropped me off at the front door. And I went ahead and stayed. They made me start over. So I stayed for another 30 days, and ever since then, I haven't touched a drug.
Brenda 03:11
Wow. So it sounds like at some point, and this sort of relates to one of the questions is, it sounds like your parents started putting some boundaries in place. And it sounds like it was that night after your dad found the heroin and the crack pipe and everything. Where they finally said, that's it. No more. And what was going on in your mind? Because I think a lot of what I hear from parents is they have a really hard time doing that. They feel guilty. This is my kid, I can't cut them off. I can't take away the truck. I can't turn off the cell phone. Because then what are they going to do? What's your thinking around that?
Stacy 04:01
I mean, my thought around that is if I would have had any other option but to go that next morning, I would have taken it, right? So when I have a cell phone, well, I can figure something out. When I have a truck I can figure something, right? When mom and dad haven't kicked me out or actually said I'm not allowed there, it can last another day. It can last another day. Right? But the reality with that is, I feel like you've got to treat everybody the same as you would treat anybody, and I know that my dad, if anybody else in the world stole from him, took advantage of them the way that I did, lied to them the way that I did, like I just wouldn't be a part of his life, right?
Like, just you're just not welcome here. And it's not because I don't love you. It's not because of anything, it's not even because I want you to get sober, I'd love you to get sober. But just because it's not good for my life, you just can't do this to me. And I think the thing that I learned after getting cleaned up, getting my life turned around was that you as a parent, like, my parents had two options. It was, take care of themselves, and not participate in me committing suicide, right, like me killing myself with drugs watching me do it every day helping me do it every day. Or they can continue to participate. Because they're afraid that I might think they don't love me or like, you know, I think a big fear with a lot of parents is, well, if I just like, kick him to the curb, then what is he got to lose? Right, then he's really gonna overdo it, and he's gonna end up dead. If that's the case, it's so sad to say, but he's gonna end up dead anyway, you're just going to help him do it. Right? Like, do you want to be a part of it or not.
And if you don't want to be a part of it, then you just got to set some boundaries. And those boundaries can't be based on trying to change what your son or daughter is doing. It has to be based on what's best for your life. And, I mean, I know that my family was in turmoil because of me. Right? Like, it was just, it was chaos all the time. And nobody was happy. And it was all because of me. So my parents continuing to pretend like this wasn't happening, ultimately hurt my sister and hurt my sister's relationship with them, I'm sure in the moment and hurt my nieces. And, and you know, all of that, like, hurt it for sure, mom and dad's marriage just wasn't happy. And if you look 30,000 feet up, and you say, whoa, I want to fix everything in my life, with one move, it's pluck Stacy out of it, and everything is fine. I mean, I know that that's like, impossible as a parent, and I think about it, I think about it all the time with my son, he's 10 and I think, am I actually going to be able to do that, it when that moment comes. So it sounds easy, but, I mean, it sounds really hard and I'm making it sound easy, but it ultimately it's the only option.
Brenda 07:50
Right. And I think the whole concept of just throwing them out and detaching and, and letting them hit rock bottom is very extreme and I think what instead at least the therapists and psychologists and everybody is recommending now is just is to hold the boundaries set the boundary and say no, this isn't happening this isn't healthy for myself. However, if you decide you want to get some help, I'm here to help you. Meaning I will drive you across the state to treatment you know not I will give you money, but to say I love you, here are the boundaries, you can't come home, you can't have a car, you can't have a phone, whatever it is that that you need to do. Like how would that have sounded to you or maybe your parents said that to you? Because I think that's what parents are being encouraged to do is to hold the boundaries with love, to say I love you, I'm not doing this because I don't love you, it's not I don't love Stacy anymore just get out of my life - it's I love you and I love myself and I need to do this for myself and I'm here to help you if you want help how does that resonate with somebody? Since you've been in both shoes you've been in the shoes that are addicted and then you know now not being
Stacy 09:13
Absolutely, if you're a person who can actually do that. If you're a person who can actually set that boundary and then, because I know for me, and I can speak for myself, if my dad said exactly what you just said, in my mind, the door is still open. I've still got the ability to manipulate the situation, right? Okay, I need a ride. Give me a ride or give me a ride to treatment or I'm gonna go to treatment dad but you know i i really need to take care of this before I go or like there's a fine line. It's a difficult line to hold, I guess, because they love us so much, you love your son so much. And my parents love me so much that, right? If there's still an opportunity for communication, and any of that in my mind as the addict, I think, Okay, well, it could have been worse, like, I still have an opportunity to manipulate this situation.
And then you go back, and if I can't manipulate it, then you know, I keep hitting that brick wall. Well, then then, ultimately, it works. But I personally think nothing that my parents did, like them cutting me off like that, that's not why I decided to get clean. It's because I had no other options. So if they would have cut me off six months before, I wouldn't have gone to treatment on Monday. Right? I still had other you know, I wasn't in total debt with the drug dealer, and I still could like hustle up some work. And I hadn't stolen everything there was to steal. And, you know, I still had some options. So, right, that was a big thing. But I just think that the decision needs to be based on what's best for you. Because you're not actually affecting it one way or another, as the parent, which is we want to say, yeah, as much as we want to think as people that we can push and pull to get to help our kids especially, make the right decisions and do the right things. And it just really, really doesn't work that way. Especially with somebody who's addicted to drugs.
Brenda 11:57
Right, because you're not working, I think one, one thing that's easy to do is, if you're in that situation, as a parent, you forget that you're not actually dealing with your child, you are dealing with your child, who is now owned basically by a substance. And it's not like you're talking to or negotiating with or rationalizing with your child in this in the state of mind that they would normally be in or is a healthy state of mind. And that's why it leads to the question of, well, why would you do that because you forget who you're dealing with. But it sounds like any little sliver of a window that is still open or door that is still open, you will charge through that like a raging bull, if you are in that position. And you can you see that little window open, it's like, okay, I can still do that.
And I love how you were saying that you made up these stories because so many parents and moms will say, well, wait a minute, but then he said he had, he owed this money, and then we had to go over here and then we had to do that. And then I bought him that because... and the complexity of the stories is, is impressive. Like maybe you should be a screenwriter because there's so so many interesting twists and turns that happen, and I know, at least with my son, come to find out later, none of that was going on, there was none of that it was just you know, the way of being manipulated into doing whatever he wanted me to do.
Stacy 13:35
There's a reason that drug addicts in particular if we're the lucky few, the blessed few that actually come out on the other side, there's a reason that they are usually amazing salespeople, I can sell an idea of how this has to happen and how you need this and I and it's gonna benefit me I can sell it to the wall, right, I talk to the wall and it's giving me that money. Right. And I that's a learned behavior because I had to, like, I had no other option, but to figure out a way to talk mom into giving me some money so that I could pay that to get drugs. But really it was, I got this bill that's due, and if that check bounces, well then I'm going to lose my checking account. And if I lose my checking account, well then my credit card payment will bounce on Friday, and it's gonna cost $200 when really all I need is $80 bucks. Okay, here's 80 bucks, you know, like every time.
Brenda 14:48
The manipulation is masterful and for parents, you're not even functioning well because you haven't slept well because you're so worried about your kids. So you're not even coming from a healthy place, and then that black-belt level of manipulation done on you is pretty crazy. But so well, you've answered a lot of the questions just in talking through your story. And, and I also want to say congratulations on, you know, just having listened to this, you know, I just am so astounded at your, your journey and then to be able to go and I think it's so fascinating that you say I went because I didn't have any other options so you have to really get to a point then where it is your choice because like you were saying nothing that your mom or dad could have done would have gotten you there - is that a true statement?
Stacy 15:52
That's true. And I didn't decide, I didn't decide to quit doing drugs until after I got home from treatment. I mean, I came back home and, and with every intention of getting back to my life of who I am, because I had nothing else except for that life. And, you know, other things happened that, ultimately, I realized that, I didn't realize that I had a - I knew that I was a drug addict. And I like doing drugs. And I was gonna do drugs until I died, when I was doing drugs. That was fine with me. But I hadn't really accepted the fact that I couldn't, not do them. I kept telling myself, oh, the reason I have to do them tomorrow is that I've got to go to work. And I can't go to work if I'm sick. And you know, I always had an excuse of why I had to do it. But when I was dead sober 34 days, 35 days, dead sober. And my counselor said to me, on the way out of treatment said to me, Hey, man, I know you have no intention of staying sober, you think you've got it under control. Just try just do it for two weeks, when you get home, see if you can stay clean for two weeks.
And I looked at him and I was like, done. I'll text you in two weeks. Like it was a challenge, like dad, right? When I got the catcher's gear, fine. Two weeks, piece of cake. And I wasn't there for eight hours before I was on my way to get drugs. And I didn't get drugs that night. Somebody from treatment and called me to check-in and a whole bunch of things, like really like big, God-things happened. But when I was sitting there on the phone, and of course didn't tell the person I was in treatment with like, where I was going or what I was doing, and thank goodness she called. I was like, oh yeah, I'm great. Everything's good. Yeah, loving it. Blah, blah, blah, and mom and dad are so happy to see me. It's great, you know.
But after I got off the phone, I realized I was screwed. I couldn't do it. I couldn't stay sober. Even if I promised somebody I would. And I'm somebody that if I say I'm going to do something, I do it. And I couldn't, I couldn't do it. It totally owned me. And that's when I really decided I was gonna get cleaned up. And so really, what got me sober was me deciding I was going to get sober, not mom and dad taking everything away. I mean, not having any other options, that probably kept me alive for the next 30 days, 35 days so that I had the opportunity to make the decision. But that's not why I got my life turned around. Right? It was because I decided that I needed help.
And so then I did what everybody told me I was supposed to do, which is start being around people who had been through it. And then that's when it really started to work. And I decided I'm okay with the next three or four years of my life being way worse than the worst of the worst drug years. I'm okay with that. So that I can actually have control of my life. I couldn't stand it that I would wake up in the morning and every day I would still think about doing drugs and I needed something to wake up and I just I was so sick of that. So that's when I decided to do it.
So I think that for the moms and dads presumably sisters or brothers or anybody who's listening, you know it's it your child is putting you through anything like what I put my folks through and my sister through, I'm sorry, I do not envy you and it's really difficult. But I think that my biggest advice is to take care of yourself. You can't take care of your child unless you're really healthy mentally and physically and getting some sleep and it's a whole lot easier said than done, but your life matters too. So try your best to be happy and do what you can to have good relationships with the people who aren't stealing from you and the people who aren't keeping you up all night. Because those people deserve it. So I think that's really important.
Brenda 20:19
And did you see your mom doing any of that? Did you see her taking care of herself and, and saying I can't have this in my life?
Stacy 20:31
Not until I got sober. And at that point, once I was sobered up, you know, mom was still struggling. They didn't trust me, I had moved into an Oxford House over here in Seattle. And so they don't know what's going on. I have nobody, I have no job. Of course, they're worried sick about me. At some point, she talked to my friend's mother, who was married to my friend's dad who was long time sober. And, and she told my mom that she should start going to some al-anon meetings. And mom started doing that. And she really started living it. And it helped her a lot, it helped her understand that she's just got to take care of her. And helping me continue down the wrong path is not the right way to go. And, you know, at this point, I was sober, but just understanding that it's okay, that you don't trust, she didn't trust me. And that's okay. You know, I let her down. And it's not up to her to learn how to trust me again. It's not, that's not her responsibility. And that took years, you know, like years of me showing back going home and showing up years, I didn't see a checkbook sitting on the counter. Like, they might just be in the habit of putting the checkbook away.
Brenda 22:00
Right, that's locked away, somewhere.
Stacy 22:03
And I mean, at this point, I didn't, you know, I didn't become a major league baseball player, and buy their house and do all the things. But last year, I did buy their house and mom works for me, she gets a paycheck every Friday from me and I help financially support them, just like I would have, if I was a major league baseball player. Now, they don't have Mercedes, like they would if I was a major league baseball player, but that I am fulfilling that thing I told them I was gonna do, I'm just doing it a different way. And, but even with all of that, when COVID happened, when they like, shut us down, and it was crazy. And my business was closed for a couple of months. My mom still, you know, 11 years and 9-9-09, so 11 years in, my mom, my sister, and my dad checked in and said, are you gonna be alright, through this? Like, is everything gonna be okay? And my mom said, if you need a meeting, you go to a meeting. Can you call Chad, Chad's another one of my really good friends that, you know, just Danica, my wife? Does she know what to look for? And like, I haven't even thought about doing drugs for seven, eight years, you know, like, I haven't even crossed my mind. But it's okay that they don't trust me. I don't know, until I realized that I don't deserve that. Like, I've earned this where I'm at. You know that I'm in denial at that point, because I think they should just trust me.
Brenda 23:47
Wow. There's a couple things in there that I think are really important, A- that you are so committed, and and what a interesting and beautiful twist that your mom is now getting checks from you versus you stealing them from her. I think that's incredible. And then the other is that you say I haven't even thought about it for years. And I think that's one thing that parents can't imagine is ever going to happen. And that people just I know, in talking to my son, that he would have never thought and if somebody would have told you that when you're 25 or 26 oh, dude, there's gonna be a time when you're not even gonna think about using drugs. You would have thought they were out of their mind. Right? Like, there's no way you would have believed that.
Stacy 24:41
You don't get it. Yeah,
Brenda 24:43
Like, you don't understand how bad I am. And so I don't know if anybody will listen to this who's actually in addiction right now. But if they do, I think that's super important to hear, but also for parents to be able to understand, this is changeable, this can change. And that kid who is making your life hell right now can be paying you and employing you. And I think that hope and that is so important to reiterate because it is so hard to see that when you're in the thick of it. It doesn't seem possible.
Stacy 25:25
And I do all of that. And I was excited to do all of that. And it was like my goal and dream to hire mom and all of those things. And she kicked me out of the house. I wasn't like, well, heck with her, she screwed me, right? No, now that I'm cleaned up, I'm emotionally intelligent enough and self-aware enough to know that she had no choice. She was doing that out of 100% love. And it was the hardest thing for her. I knew it was hard for her. And I used that against her. That's how low we are in that moment, like mom is devastated, and that's right where I want her, because that's when I can talk her into giving me what I want. It is so crazy.
Brenda 26:23
It's so twisted.
Stacy 26:25
So twisted.
Brenda 26:28
But I'm so glad that you said that because the guilt and the not knowing and the sleepless nights of should I have done that are just such torture for moms and dads. And so hearing that from somebody who has been there is so important. And I think that that can really help to alleviate some of the questioning, there's the constant questioning that you know, as a parent you go through every day is like the series of 18 questions of Am I doing the right thing? Or the wrong thing? And should I've done that? Or should I have done that? Or? And so very, very helpful.
There was one, I think you answered all the questions, you magically will have those in, but one of them that I think would be interesting to ask is when you were younger, so when you are going through all of that with the baseball and realizing that, oh my gosh, maybe this isn't gonna happen. And then you know, you went off to college, and then you came back. And you were really hit with that reality. And psychologically, that would have been really painful. And that's when you started drinking and experimenting. Is there anything that you can think of that could have helped at that stage? Right, when you are at that tipping point of like, Oh, this isn't going to happen? And I've made such an ass of myself. And maybe I can't do what I want to do for my parents. Do you think there's anything either that parents could have offered? Or from the outside and outside resources? Or do you think that's just a phase of life? That's where you were and it is just what it is? What are your thoughts on that?
Stacy 28:10
So I don't know the whole answer to the question, because obviously,
Brenda 28:14
you don't know what you don't know.
Stacy 28:16
Something changes and everything. One thing changes and everything changes. But I know for sure that if my mom and dad were to sat me down right there, and hey, I know you're going through a tough time, we love you anyway, don't start doing drugs - wouldn't have changed a thing, you know. I honestly believe that what could have happened right, then is if I realized that the real issue with the way I was feeling was the fact that my identity was so like, I didn't know who I was and who I was going to be and how I could show up and how I had let everybody down. And you know, just to be clear, like, I still feel like I let my dad down. But he's never like when I was done playing baseball. Never did he was he like, oh, I wish he would have tried harder or right. He just loved it because I loved it. You know, when I was done, he was done. And that was fine.
Stacy 29:20
But if somehow I would have come to that realization on my own, instead of because, you know, nobody told me I was a let-down. I just felt that way. And the reason I felt that like it's a double-edged sword, because the reason I felt like I was letting everybody down is that my whole life everybody believed in me, you know, and I and I continue to live up to that, right? Like, my parents think I'm gonna be really good at this or that and I end up being really good at this or that. And so that moment, when they thought I was gonna do something I didn't do it. I decided I let everybody down. Nobody, nobody else felt like I let them down. They didn't care, I bet in the back of my dad's mind, he probably knew I wasn't gonna be a major league baseball player. There's not that many of them, you know,
Brenda 30:18
it's a pretty special thing.
Stacy 30:20
He just wanted me to love what I was doing and believe in myself. And I did that so much that that ultimately I lost my identity. So, back to the point is, if something would have happened, who knows what it is, but if something would have happened in that moment, that made me realize that wasn't my identity, for me to realize that may have changed. I may have not needed to, you know, drown my sorrows with drugs. That being said, something would have come up in life. And I would have been there. Like, that's just who I was, it wouldn't have changed me, it wouldn't have said, okay, Stacy, you're not an addict, you're not a drug addict. It would have said, well, you're not a drug addict, yet. Something's gonna come up. Because really, what got me out of that is, is doing the work and understanding how to treat people and understanding what that holding resentments against people is a miserable way to live. And that ultimately drives you to hold resent resentments against yourself, and, you know, all the things that lead up to that. I know how to combat those feelings now. And I wouldn't have learned how to do that. Unless I went through that time and learned from people that are just like me, can't say no.
Brenda 32:00
So it's been a teacher, in some ways, a very painful teacher. And did you do that through AA or what was your mechanism for getting through that and getting to the learnings?
Stacy 32:14
I did, I did it through AA, went to a ton of meetings, because it's all like, it's all I had. And they accepted me there. When I was here, I had nothing and you know, I just rode it out for a long time. I'm not a believer in the saying fake it till you make it. Unless you're just getting sober. And you just keep going to meetings. It's really hard to find any heroin at an AA meeting, so just keep going, just keep going. And that ultimately is eventually, you know, it's the saying, there's a famous saying in AA that's, if you hang out at the barbershop long enough, eventually you're gonna get a haircut. And they say that as a negative thing, like, hey, you're sober. But if you go hang out at the bar long enough, eventually you're gonna mess up and have a drink. Or if you're dating somebody who drinks every night, eventually you're gonna have a drink. So stay out of the barbershop or you're gonna get a haircut. Yeah, but it works the other way, too. I just hung out at the barbershop, the AA meetings until it started to click in enough to where I wasn't at risk of just at noon going out and getting high.
I wasn't fixed until I went through another really hard time in my life where a relationship fell apart. And I had made kind of that relationship, my identity, right? I did the same thing with her and that relationship that I did with baseball, like she was cool, she had a great job, everybody loved her, she was popular, all of the things. And so then when we broke up, I felt just like I did. And that is when, you know, I was dead sober a couple of years or three years sober at that point. And I was a wreck. And I then I got a sponsor. I worked the steps. I had a sponsor, quote-unquote, prior to that, but I just didn't ever work the steps, I would get two or three and then stop going to the meeting or stop going to our meetup.
And I called him a couple days later, in stronger language I said, I'm screwed. I'm screwed. I got nothing. And he said, Well, are you willing to try one more thing? I was like, Yeah. All right. All right, I'll see you Tuesday. And then I worked the steps and I did them for real, and they were terrible. And I learned a lot about myself. That, you know, through that, and my relationship with my family during that was very distant. I know that the people listening to this, mom’s primarily, like I was so distant from my family, I wasn't going home on Thanksgiving, and I wasn't going over there for the holidays. I wasn't calling every day and checking in, I was so distant because I needed to figure me out, you know, I was still really ashamed of who I was, I was still just a stain on my family, a burden. I felt like a burden, I was still always broke, I had nothing. I mean, this is this was three years and probably, you know, I was probably 31 years old, 32 years old, and I was still needing money.
But I quit asking for money because I felt too ashamed. I think what I'm getting at is I got sober and got my life turned around, without any help from my parents, you know, they helped me financially, they paid for the Oxford House. Of course, if you're sober, we're gonna help, but they had no part in me actually figuring out who I was, and getting my life turned around. I decided that, and I used them as motivation, right, I want to make them proud. I want to do this. But ultimately, my relationship got more and more distant during that time of me, like really learning who I am.
Brenda 36:31
That's very interesting. I'm so glad you said that. Because there is, I think a perception that once he or she gets sober, it's all going to be lovely again, and we're gonna go on family vacations, and we're gonna have Thanksgiving dinner, and it's, it's all just gonna be fine again, and it sounds like that is not necessarily the case, because there's still a lot of work that you're doing on yourself.
Stacy 36:57
Yeah, and during that time, it sounds selfish. But during that time, if we're really, really, really doing the work, we don't have time to make sure mom trusts us, and we'll get to that. I'm gonna keep not doing drugs, I'm gonna keep not drinking, I'm gonna keep not doing drugs, I'm gonna keep not drinking. And at some point, I'm gonna see mom, everything's gonna be fine, but she's gonna be looking at me funny because I know, she doesn't trust me, and she's gonna be worried I'm gonna go get high. And then I'm gonna just keep not doing drugs, keep not doing drugs. And you just know that eventually, everybody's gonna see that Stacy doesn't do drugs anymore. He just doesn't do drugs. And mom and dad, of course, like I said, COVID they were really worried. But we don't talk about it anymore. Nobody's like, whoa, how you doing except when something comes up.
Brenda 37:53
Like a pandemic...
Stacy 37:54
Yeah, like the world might be coming to an end. You never know. Right? Yeah, they check in to make sure nothing happens. But it just, it really, really, really takes time. And nothing happens overnight. And that for me, when I see somebody who, quote-unquote, got sober. They come out of treatment, 30 days in, and they're walking around, like, everything's okay. And they're showing up to family dinner, like, everything's okay. That's a huge red flag to me. Because if they're really going to get their life straightened out, stuff is not okay in that moment.
Brenda 38:40
Right? Because getting the substances out of your system in a detox, in a 30-day program, or even a 90-day program, that's just the substances, but then there's the rest of the work.
Stacy 38:54
Yeah, I don't have a drug problem. I have a life problem. Right? Yeah, like drugs are not my problem. Drugs are my solution. Drugs are not the problem. Whatever makes me do those drugs is the problem. And so when you take the drugs away, when you take the solution away, the problem becomes more and more glaring. And if you're walking around, like there's no problem. It's just a matter of time before drugs are if they're not already - if you're not already doing them, they're coming. Right? You've got to deal with the problem.
Brenda 39:35
Wow. Wow. Well, thank you so much for so much honesty. And I think if I had heard this, I'm trying to think of how many years ago a lot of years ago, it would have been incredibly insightful. So do you want to just talk briefly about kind of what you're doing with your business and I know that you do help people when they reach out to you,
Stacy 40:03
I live my life and my business is built on the idea that I'm not the center of the world. And I'm not going to be, I'm no better than anybody else. And so whether it's drug addict or alcoholic, or just somebody down on their luck, or whatever it is, we just take a whole lot of pride in helping when we can, because I know exactly how that homeless person feels. Now, I'm not saying that we just hand out dollars to homeless people, but I know what it feels like to be dead sober, and have no idea how I'm gonna buy dinner. Like, I know that feeling. And I don't have that feeling anymore. But, you know, my life, I'm extremely blessed. And I've worked really hard, we aren't in that spot right now. But I have been there. And so I know what helping whether it's, you know, with dinner or with, with talking to somebody or helping a kid or, or whatever it might be like, we're always, we're always looking to help. And that's kind of what, you know, gets me up in the morning. So I think that in life, that's how I stay on the right track is I just try to think about other people, instead of thinking about myself.
Brenda 41:36
Wow. And you were saying that, when you were in, in those dark days, you thought your life was over, you didn't think that there was anything worth getting clean for? Because what would you do? Because, you know, you're going to be an addict, and nobody's going to hire you and so seen, I think, you know, for people to see. Yeah, actually, there's a lot that you can do. And, and I'm sure that people look at you and see that and say, Wow, okay, this is what life can look like. It's amazing. And you can even be giving back is, is so important to see that, that it's not the end of the road, because I do I have I'm thinking specifically of a couple of moms in my community who have kids, they're 19. And they're saying, I'm not going to get sober. Why would I do that? There's nothing for me. And they're 19 years old,
Stacy 42:42
Didn't go to college, got bad grades, like what's the point?
Brenda 42:46
yeah. And the moms are just beside themselves. Because obviously, you're looking at them saying, you're 19, you're a baby, you know...
Stacy 42:57
Same thing my dad was saying at 28. What are you talking about? You're a kid. What are you talking about? You're not even supposed to have it figured out. Now's the time to start figuring it out. So let's get straight now. What are you talking about?
Brenda 43:13
Exactly, exactly. It's all about perspectives. Stacy, thank you a million times over for this it is going to be really game-changing for a lot of parents. Just quickly, is there any resources, besides obviously AA, and I'll put a link to your website on there, is there anything that you have found like books or podcasts or courses or speakers or anything like that, that you would recommend to somebody to check out?
Stacy 43:44
Unfortunately, no, just talk to people who have been through it. You know, continue to talk to people who've been through it try to find the podcast where you know somebody like you right? Like you've been through it as a mom and listen to Brenda and Brenda, continue to try to have some drug addicts and alcoholics on that are no longer in it. You know, I think that brings good perspective. So just talk to people who have gone through it. But also don't expect to understand it, you're never gonna understand it if you've never been through it.
Brenda Zane 44:15
Well, I hope that you have been impacted by Stacy's story as I am. It's one that is so important to share. Because parents get to a point where nothing they do is working or helping. And we feel completely hopeless. Stacy is proof that people can overcome addiction. And I want to thank him again for generously and bravely sharing his story. And also thank you so much for listening.
If you're a mom listening to this and thinking, there must be other moms out there listening to, I can tell you that there are thousands of other moms that are searching for this same information. And for a more personal connection. You can find me and a bunch of these moms by going to my website, BrendaZane.com. And there you will get lots of information about a really special online community of moms called The Stream. We have regular calls and chat sessions. We do a monthly yoga class for stress and anxiety. And it's all positively focused. It is not on Facebook, and it's completely confidential. Membership is on a pay-what-you-can model, so if you want to join this community, and you need the support, you’re in.
You might also want to download my free ebook called HINDSIGHT: Three Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted To Drugs. It is packed with information that I truly wish I had known back in the darker years with my son. And so I share it now in case it might be helpful to you in your journey. You can get that at Brendazane.com/hindsight, and I will put a link to both of these resources in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for listening. I'll meet you right back here next week.