Ayurveda to balance mind and body: a more holistic approach to stress reduction and addiction recovery with Jessica Ferrol, LMFC, MA, AyuD
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @the.stream.community
The Stream Community: online and app-based community for moms of kids experimenting with or addicted to drugs or alcohol
Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted to Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here
Guest: Jessica Ferrol, LMFC, MA, AyuD
Resources:
LifeSpa.com - Dr. John Doulliard
The Book of Ayurveda: A Holistic Approach to Health and Longevity (Morrison)
California College of Ayurveda
Show Transcript:
SPEAKERS
Brenda Zane, Jessica Ferrol
Brenda 01:32
Welcome. Today I'm excited to bring you something a little different, at least a little different than what you typically hear about in the world of substance use addiction and recovery. My guest today is a licensed mental health counselor, an Ayurvedic doctor, herbalist, panchakarma specialist, and a registered yoga therapist. And if that isn't enough, she also has experience in yogic psychology and is a level two Hakomi practitioner, which is a form of mindfulness centered somatic psychotherapy. She specializes in helping clients navigate anxiety, depression, substance use disorder, body image issues and dysmorphia and just general life transitions. She synthesizes holistic arithmetic and yogic therapies into her counseling approach which forms a complete system of holistic care and addresses the needs of her clients mind, body and soul. She brings her expertise in all these fields of study together to form a thorough understanding of how to help her clients finally back to balance. She has a private practice in Westerly, Rhode Island, and generously spent time with me to talk about how as a stressed out parents, we can use Ayurvedic practices as a way of coping with our chaotic lives. And we also talked about how people who are recovering from addiction can choose a more holistic and natural path, one that might be a little less known than programs like 12 steps. This is a very fascinating topic and conversation, and I'm excited for you to listen out to my passionate and knowledgeable guest, Jessica Ferrol.
Brenda 03:24
Welcome, Jessica. I am so thrilled to have you here today. Like I said, we were chatting earlier that I have been looking for a while for somebody with your kind of magical mixture of talents and expertise. So thank you so much for joining me today on hope stream.
Jessica 03:40
Thank you so much for having me, Brenda.
Brenda 03:43
I'd love to just kick off my podcast episodes with a fun question to let people get to know you a little bit better as a person before we dive into everything that you do professionally. And so that question is What did you want to be when you were growing up, when you were a kid? What were you wanting to be?
Jessica 04:03
That's a great question. I've actually always been intrigued by the relationship between the mind and body since I was a kid, so to grow up and to find the sciences, yoga and higher beta that aligned completely with what I believe to be true was, was a blessing, was excellent.
Brenda 04:22
Wow, that's really, that's pretty unusual that people find that you know, like if you know something at a young age that that's what you end up actually practicing. So that's, that's really interesting. How did that show up for you when you were a kid? Like how did you know you were interested in that? That kind of combination of the mind and the body?
Jessica 04:43
Well, observing it in myself that my emotions have influenced the way that my body feels and then also observing in the people around me that their body has responded to their emotions as well.
Brenda 04:55
Yeah, that's so cool. You must have been a very intuitive and astute child, probably wise beyond your years, I'm sure you heard that often?
Jessica 05:06
Well, no, I think I think people would just kind of look at me and say you want to do what?
Brenda 05:12
Yeah. So then what was the path? If that if that was sort of an interest of yours? How did you kind of get to where you are? I'm curious how that path of all for you through, you know, your younger schooling ages, years, and then as you got into more of a college age, like what was your path of progression in your background that led you to where you are?
Jessica 05:31
Well, naturally, I had a high school advisor, say, well, you must want to study psychology. And of course, the mind was interesting to me. So I got my bachelor's degree in psychology. And after that really vigorously looked for a graduate program that I could study what I studied over Salve (Salve Regina University), the mind body connection, holistic mental health counseling, and I didn't find it in the late 90s. But what I did come upon was yoga. And very quickly after that, Ayurveda, and I was able to study those in depth and begin my practice in the early 2000s.
Brenda 06:10
And this, were you did you have like a group of friends that were also doing this? Or was this something fairly unique to you? What was the sort of what was going on in your world from a standpoint of, were people looking at you like, are you is this was that weird? Or was that something that was was part of what your kind of crowd was doing?
Jessica 06:34
My crowd definitely was not doing it. I would say that a friend of mine that I worked in, in an office setting after college, introduced me to yoga and said, you know, I think you'd really like this. And it took one video, and I was like, I don't just want to be a student, I want to study this. And that just led me to a teacher training program. And so I immediately began teaching. And then I was just reading everything I could at that point. And that was back when the yoga books were under the spirituality and religion section. So, and I've actually, of course, picked up a book that lives on yoga and Ayurveda. And it took me about 10 pages before my search began for the best Ayurvedic school that I could find in our country.
Brenda 07:21
Wow, what was it about yoga that sort of just caught you right off off the bat? Had you been involved in other like sports activities? Or what what was it about yoga that was so kind of meaningful to you?
Jessica 07:35
I was always an exerciser. But when I did yoga, I immediately noticed how it affected my mind and my nervous system. It was very different than anything I've done before. I was so intrigued that a forward bend in yoga was nothing like a forward bend in any other exercise routine, by just adding the breath and awareness of the body. And so as you as I started studying, yoga became obvious to me this was this was a science much aligned to recognizing that connection between mind and body. But I knew that wasn't the end point because I knew I needed something much more full, which Ayurveda was for me.
Brenda 08:20
So what was the school when you did your research? I'm just dying to know what what is that the school that you attended
Jessica 08:28
California College of Ayurveda out in California.
Brenda 08:32
And how long is that program? Is that a typical four year school? Or how does that work?
Jessica 08:39
That is today, that program is a three year program to get to the point that I got to actually might be a little longer than three years today. When I when we were, we went straight through for 18 months. And there was no breaks. I think we had two breaks Actually, I'm sorry, two, one-week breaks.
Brenda 09:00
Oh my goodness.
Jessica 09:01
Yeah, it was an intense program. And then I stayed on board with that school for about 15, 17 years afterwards as a teacher.
Brenda 09:09
Oh, wow, that's great. For the listeners who don't have any idea what we're talking about. And I I almost put myself in that category. Like I said, I did read the Dummies book for Ayurveda. So I might have like a millimeter up on somebody who's never heard of it. But can you just give us a background of what it is and sort of how somebody could think about fitting that into their life?
Jessica 09:32
Yeah, Ayurveda in a nutshell is a healthcare system that's rooted in the understanding of the mind body connection. So all the therapies that Ayurveda utilizes address both the physical body and mental health, with the understanding that when you are working on the body, you're also influencing the mind. So much like that forward bend in the yoga class, or these therapeutic things, in Ayurveda, like creating a daily evening routine, where you're using oils to do a particular foot massage, you're helping your foot and the muscles of your foot, but you're also relaxing the nervous system, which then is relaxing the mind, helping you sleep more. And then the next day, you're going to feel physically mentally better. And that's how every therapy is in Ayurveda and also one important thing to understand is that Ayurveda looks at our environment, as and our relationship with our environment as influencing us very heavily influencing our well being. And everything we take in from our environment, from sound to taste, to even color is going to impact us and fall on a scale, that's somewhere between nourishing for our body mind and toxic for our body mind. So we will use the environment as a healing therapy as well.
Brenda 10:59
So this, it seems, kind of when I hear that it feels to me like it puts me in a little bit more control than just kind of accepting Oh, that this is happening to me, and I just have to bear through it. It It is that true, like it feels like what you're saying is, there are things that I can do, not only just with my body, but also my environment, that can actually make a big difference in my health versus just sitting back and accepting what's going on. Would that be kind of would that be a true statement?
Jessica 11:33
I, I think so maybe I think we'll just refine it a little bit. Because our environment can be hard to control. We can't, we don't have control over our loved ones and our family members. But what we can, what we can influence is our perception of their behavior, our perception of our relationship with them, what we can also influences, you know, how we care for ourselves. So just getting on a daily rhythm, around sleep and around meals and around exercise that is within our control. And so part of that influence on the environment, is we look at everything in nature, and everything moves within a cycle within a pattern. And when we find our own cycle and our own rhythm, then we're healthier mentally and physically, then we can be in our environment with a lot more strength, and a lot more clarity. So I don't know that it's always about controlling the environment. 100%.
Brenda 12:36
Right, no, that that totally makes sense. I think that's a great thing to point out. And I just love how it's just seems so like a no brainer to connect these things, the what you're thinking mentally, and how you're treating your body. And I guess it's kind of surprising to me. And I felt this a little bit when I first started reading about Ayurveda, that it's maybe it's just the United States that it's just not more prevalent in, especially, you know, in what I deal with in addiction, and maybe it is and I just haven't bumped into it, but it just seems so natural to put these things together. Because, as we know, with with substance use, it isn't just that you can remove the substance and everything's fine. Right? There's, there's a lot that's, you know, everything's interconnected. So that's, that makes a lot of sense. And parents that listen to this podcast, and the moms, in particular, in my online community are so stressed out, they are so beyond sort of the realm of kind of normal day to day stress that people feel, you know, because their kids really I think of it, that they have a life threatening illness because they really do. So this seems like a very good way for somebody in that situation, to sort of be managing themselves. For people who are under that extreme stress is something that people find when they're when they're going through something like that, because they're looking for a way to really help their mind and body at the same time.
Jessica 14:20
Well, the hope is that they do find that. I mean, honestly, I, I'd like to say I hope that I would hope that more people would take the time for themselves in those situations. So if your listeners have found you, then they're taking time for themselves. So I think that that's great. I think that a lot of us, in those situations leave ourselves last. And what we don't realize is that by leaving ourselves last, we actually can't show up for our kids in the way that we want to, you know, by taking care of ourselves. We can stay mentally and physically strong. And then we can be our best selves. For our kids, because our kids are really needing us in those moments, and while they're going through their own struggles, so it's definitely not a encouraged, I would say, in our culture that take care of yourself first. But when you look at it like that it's imperative.
Brenda 15:15
Right? Right. It's it's almost, and I try to impress this upon the moms that I work with in our community is that if you aren't doing that, it's almost not, I don't want to call it selfish, but it's almost like you're leaving something on the table that you could be giving to your child like this is actually you eating well, you drinking some water, you moving your body, that's a gift that you're actually giving to your child as well.
Jessica 15:41
Absolutely 100% even just the simple fact that when we don't get enough sleep, we are not our best self, yet, the next day, we can't be we're not thinking clearly we're a little grumpy, maybe we want a little bit too much sugar, and then that just doesn't work for us because we get the energy and then we get the crash. And we just don't show up. And that's just sleep, we're not even talking about diet and movement and relaxing our you know, jaw muscles and doing something for those tight shoulders.
Brenda 16:11
Right. And I know that you you do have experience, maybe you can sort of tell listeners what your experiences with substance use and addiction. Because I think it's such a unique combination that you have the those two complimentary skills and the and the expertise there. So what's your work then with, you know, people who are dealing with substances.
Jessica 16:34
So I have worked with anywhere, quite a range of an age group from adults to middle school aged kids, dealing either with substance abuse personally or people in their families. But um, for people who are in active use, or in recovery, what Ayurveda and yoga therapies offer them is really well, I'll just say what I get from them is feedback like, wow, this is the feeling that I have in my body, this feeling that I have, in my mind, as we do the therapies, this is actually what I was looking for, when I reached for that substance, or this is what I got from taking that substance. And it's a feeling of being connected to yourself, know whether it's just being connected to breath, being connected to body being connected to the moment, and right there within yourself. And within that moment is always a feeling of ease, and safety. And then the nervous system can come down. And I know I'm simplifying it. And it's not coming from me though, this is the feedback that I get over and over and over again, from my clients.
Brenda 17:50
Well, that that makes a lot of sense. Because people obviously are looking for something that they're they're using a substance to get a specific feeling or, or an experience. And at some point they do, whether it's, you know, whatever the circumstances are, that they start to realize, maybe the negatives involved with my choice are outweighing you know, the the actual feeling and so they're looking to replace that. And I just think it's great to offer something like this that is not, you know, it doesn't sound to me, we can talk about some specifics, but it, it just feels like a very intuitive way to tap into what you personally need. Because what I might need, it could be completely different from what you might need or, or be seeking. And so it feels like a great way to tap into myself and feel like, Okay, this yoga makes me feel this way or this food or this, you know, whatever it is that I'm adding in. It's not intuitive, maybe you know what the word I'm looking for
Jessica 19:03
I think intuitive describes it well. Yeah. And I think, um, you know, when I work with clients, again of all ages, what I like to reassure them is the feeling that they get from whatever their substance of choice is, you know, it's alleviating some kind of inner discomfort, you know, and that all human feel inner discomfort, it's just a part of life. But not all of us know that we have all the tools within us that are accessible to us at any moment to alleviate that discomfort, or at least make it bearable, and I really think we're in a culture especially today where everything is just a quick fix. Just distract yourself, you know, just get out of your body just pretend you know, get they get on the phone or they they get some kind of quick satisfaction and it's it's just never encouraging to really like that. Maybe just take a walk, maybe just take a breath. Use the tools that you have right now. And it's really about them knowing that and then knowing that these emotions are normal, that the discomfort is incredibly normal that the wanting to move away from the discomfort is human. And here's the way that you can help yourself, you know, so it's reaching out to others, but here's the way that you can also, you know, help yourself right in that moment. And those are the tools that I teach my clients.
Brenda 20:33
You're right in where it's, we're really that microwave culture, we want the quick fix, we want it right, right away. And there's no lack of companies, you know, offering us products and services and apps that, you know, are there to supposedly get us out of our body. And like, I love what you're saying about getting more into the body to find that versus looking externally.
Jessica 21:02
Yeah,and I know, I'm making it sound simple, and, and it was a practice of coming back home to you, which is what I really like to call it. It sounds like, it's a really easy concept. But we're so habitually leaving ourselves behind, and just getting carried away by thoughts upon thoughts upon thoughts. And the mind is just, it's very rarely positive. It's either in the future worrying about something or in the past, worrying about something, or getting depressed about something. And it's always in the here and the now and how, you know, just that simple noticing of the rhythm of the grass, and how the rhythm of the breath moves in the same way that the waves of the ocean come up onto the shore. You know, and, and when you do that, you kind of notice while I'm connected, and you know, just other simple things and tuning into the feeling behind the belly button, or, you know, maybe the feeling of your feet on the floor. When you focus on that when you focus on body, when you focus on you, you're alive. Just that shift of awareness, that shift of focus takes the emphasis off of all that chatter. Because in order to focus on that, that chatter has to quiet a little bit. And there's some alleviation right there in that moment.
Brenda 22:42
Well, that's so powerful. And I just can imagine people, I can imagine a couple of things, like you said, making it sound so simple, but I think simple can also be so powerful, that sometimes we overly complicate things. And from what you're saying, it sounds like we can really remove a lot of the external details and distractions and just I love what you said about coming home to you. And realizing that it's, it's all within you, you might need some help in finding it and using it the right way. And I'd love to talk about some of those things that you do with clients, but it's kind of comforting to know that I'm walking around with it all inside of me right now. It's kind of a cool concept.
Jessica 23:33
It's wonderful. It's incredibly satisfying. And and the reason why it's not so simple is because the mind itself is incredibly addicted. You know, we it just we get hooked on things our mind gets hooked on things and and so when we live just in that world of chatter, chatter, chatter, chatter, that becomes addicting. And it's it's like a dog chasingits tail, there's never a sense of satisfaction there. There's never a sense of equilibrium of homeostasis of, oh, I can rest now. And so it's really just teaching showing clients working with clients and coming to that place of ease over and over again.
Brenda 24:20
Yes, yes. And especially and I would love to sort of talk about to the two different groups of people, one being the parents of the kids, so the parents who are probably listening to this, but then also I know for myself, and when my son was so sick and and addicted to pills. I was always - he probably didn't appreciate this - but I was always trying to find things that I could suggest to him that might help. And so I think sometimes as parents, we overdo that, but if you know let's talk first about parents who are so highly stressed out, they're not sleeping They've usually what I always hear is they've either gained 30 pounds, or they've lost 30 pounds. So one or the other, neither of which is healthy. You know, they have brain fog, they have panic attacks. What are what are some of the things and I don't want to boil, you know, all of Ayurveda down to one or two things, because I know it's very holistic and full. But are there some simple practices that you could say that a parent could try right away in their life, just to start to sort of get get back into themselves? That you would recommend?
Jessica 25:41
Definitely, I would say that just starting with a sleep routine. And what I mean by that is making a commitment to be in their bed. That means horizontal
Brenda 25:58
Because bed doesn't always mean that.
Jessica 26:01
No, it doesn't. So being horizontal, and the only thing in their hand is a book, you know, or whatever is in their hand, it's not a screen, it's not electric. So I'm making a commitment to do that at a particular time. Now, 10 o'clock is an ideal time, but honestly, the recommendation is for them to pick a time that feels doable to them. So then make that commitment to the time. And then in the morning, make a commitment to spend five minutes, just five minutes, doing some kind of movement that feels good to their body.
Brenda 26:41
Yeah, so not rolling over grabbing your phone and a cup of coffee.
Jessica 26:45
Well, that would be the next set of commitments. But ideally, yes, they're getting out of bed. And I don't want I don't want to add too much. Because this is something I'm aware of too, when when working with clients, it's it's little steps. Because, you know, the best of intended clients, if they try to incorporate too much at once, it falls apart. And also, you don't really get a full understanding of just how much that change made a difference to me. Right, then you might not actually commit to that change. So those two things is where I would begin.
Brenda 27:24
I love it. I love it, that it's doable. And it is simple. I mean, it's simple, it might not be easy, because everybody's got their evening stuff going on. But just that idea of setting that time to get in bed, and, and really respecting that and respecting yourself enough to do it right to actually make it happen.
Jessica 27:46
And, I don't know that you'd be astonished, but some people would be astonished at how hard it is just for them to commit to that even when they pick their own time. Right? Even that the five minutes, even at the five minutes in the morning is such a commitment. And that's why I say five minutes, of course, ideally, we're doing an hour, right, but just the five minutes, and that's that's a good place to start, can I give myself five minutes
Brenda 28:12
is that just so that you're protecting that time from the outside world, so you're really just keeping kind of your own, you're in your own zone for that time? Is that really the benefit of that?
Jessica 28:25
there's absolutely that piece, then there's going to be the physical piece. So whatever it is that and, you know, maybe you notice, I didn't say specifically what they should do for the five minutes, it's going to be for their bodies, whatever they feel their bodies want to do whatever kind of movement that is. So there's that physical piece. And then there's the mind body connection. So it's, the idea would be that in that five minutes. They're not doing or thinking about anything else. Their effort is to not do or think about anything else that will creep in, of course. But if they can just say, you know, just for the five minutes, just five minutes, this is just a me thing. I'm going to see how my body wants to move. And and then I'm going to move on with my day, which is five minutes. So again, we're working here, both our mind and body will will help both.
Brenda 29:23
That's great. I really appreciate you recognizing kind of the state of mind and the state of the world that these parents are in because a lot of times people will say, okay, here's the 10 step plan. You do this, and you do that you do that. And it's so unrealistic. And it may be realistic for somebody else. But when your child's life is at risk day to day, it's just not reality. So I really, really appreciate you recognizing that.
Jessica 29:54
Yeah. I always tell my clients if they're feeling like, well, that's it? You know, I kinda wanted more? And I just say, well, let's, we're going to set you up for success, not failure and strife, right? Life already gives you here, this is about success.
Brenda 30:11
Yes, I love that. And then, I don't really recommend to parents that they make suggestions to their kids about what to do, because that usually ends very badly. But if a parent has a kiddo who is is actually receptive, and sometimes they are, you know, go they go through these phases where they may actually be receptive to hear something. Are there some simple things? Or maybe it's the same, maybe you would recommend the same thing, but just sort of knowing the life of somebody who is dealing with an addiction and substance misuse? If they were receptive? What would you tell them?
Jessica 30:49
You know, Brenda, to be honest with you, if their child living in their house, I would suggest that they say, Hey, you know, let's try this thing out together. And they can share that space in the five minutes, they can together decide on what time they're going to get into bed, and lie down and put their phones down. And pick up the book or, or whatever it is, together is always better.
Brenda 31:15
Yep, that's so true. Because often we are at battle, you know, we're battling and, and you don't have that connection. So just a simple connection like that could be a start, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to jump right into kind of kum-by-ah, you know, our families all great, but to just have a small connection that could grow from five minutes to seven minutes, maybe.
Jessica 31:38
And they're also helping each other too, because I think that it might be neat for them, for mom to say, God, it's so hard to commit to this, isn't it, even though I enjoy it so much, you know, and so they can actually, it will be the it will be the child supporting mom to and mom will have a chance to say, thank you so much for doing this with me. Because I think if you weren't on board, I wouldn't be on board. Because I'm stuck in my routines. You know, and as much as we have, we all know this too, as much as we, we do that thing, or we eat that thing. Or we don't do that thing. We don't eat that thing. It's really hard to stop. So it gives us an idea to have what it's like to change our habits and commit to changing our habits really isn't that different than what they're going through
Brenda 32:30
Yes, that is really good to remember. I went through an exercise this week in a training class that kind of forced us to change our thinking around something that we love. And I was just so surprised that not just how mentally It was difficult. But physically you feel a physical longing if you're changing something, or it's just so uncomfortable in your body to make that change. So that's a that's a really good reminder.
Jessica 32:56
And absolutely, I love that you said that - it's so uncomfortable in your body to make that change, even when it's just a thought pattern. You're working on changing. It is incredibly uncomfortable. And so that's where this mind body science is so important. Because it's so there. It's the neuro pathways that we establish. And so that's that physical piece. And so for that neural pathway to try to change direction is physically uncomfortable. And there's this whole thing that's like, well, well, this is just the always the way I walked why would I change direction that always seemed to work with me, you're saying it doesn't work? And it really is, it feels unnatural when you try to make a change.
Brenda 33:44
Yes, it definitely does. And it feels so frustrating, because you want to be able to do it successfully. And especially if you are, you know, a young person, and your parents are watching you try to make these changes. You want it to be successful, you want to show them that you can do it. And so it it's that kind of ambivalence of like, Oh, I really want to make this change and do this, but I'm having such a hard time. And I really want to do it well, because I want my parents to see me doing it well, even if they will ever admit that. And you have teenagers so you understand like it's a real struggle. I think it's really, really hard.
Jessica 34:23
It is and and I like to remind people that when they're feeling like that, that means they're doing the work. And that's good.
Brenda 34:32
That is true. If you're so comfortable that you're never experiencing that discomfort, then that's a signal that maybe you need to make some changes.
Jessica 34:39
And you're doing that then you're doing nothing. Yeah, yes, I love that. You're suffering. You're doing great. You know, so it's in the discouraging mind. It just pops up so quick. But, but that's so I like to really meet that part of ourselves with, hey, God, this is what I want to do, I want to nudge myself, I want to nudge these parts of me that really don't want to let go of what I'm doing. You know, because it's that discouraging mind, that just that makes us brings us down into this cycle of, we'll just forget it. You know, I don't care anyway, and keeps us in our old routines. So it's meeting that mind in a way of, oh, look, here you are. Great, thank you. Okay, we're going to keep making the change, even though I know it's hard.
Brenda 35:34
Even though this isn't feeling great right now.
Jessica 35:38
Oh, I'm gritting my teeth through this one. That was the worst five minutes of my life, but I'm doing it anyway.
Brenda 35:44
And I'm going to do it again tomorrow. And also, even if your kid is still maybe they are not receptive at all, maybe they're not even living with you, maybe you don't even know where they live, right? They may be kind of in that that homeless wandering couch-surfing phase, which a lot of them go through. But they, they need to see that you are taking care of yourself, and they do notice these things. So if you can't do anything for them, make these changes for yourself. And as you start to get healthier, they will notice, you know, they may never show it. But I know I have the incredible gift of now having my son on the other side in a very healthy place. And he can look back at things and tell them say, Mama, it really made me feel good when I saw that you were taking care of yourself and that you are going and seeing friends. And that you know, because he said every time I would see you and you looked terrible, and you are crying and you were so skinny, and all these things, he said it just made me feel worse. So then I wanted to not feel that. So what would I do, I'd go out and use more Xanax, it's like, so I think there's a huge amount of importance. You know, the self care isn't just for you. It's also showing your child that you are doing things for yourself. And they may be little, it may be five minutes in the morning. But you're doing something for yourself that is making yourself healthier. And they do see that and it really does matter to them.
Jessica 37:17
Yeah, it's showing our kids that even in tough times, when it is hard to do my exercise routine to keep healthy, I still do it because I'm that warrior that wants to stay conditioned. Because I'm going to keep showing up on this battlefield. I'm not going to turn away from me, but I'm not going to show up malnourished and tired. I'm going to show up healthy and strong. Right? And when when we show them that we're showing them is that they too, can push through their struggles. And it's not easy. It's not easy. They didn't sign up for easy in this life. You know, but they can, but you can still do it. Even when it's not easy. You show up anyway. And you do it?
Brenda 38:01
Yeah. And I know that food is a huge part of what we humans use to deal with emotions and I've had tons of stomach problems. And I've tried some of the Ayurvedic recommendations on food. And again, I know that this is such a deep and and I don't want to say complex because I actually think it's fairly simple. But there's just a lot to it. But for a mom in particular, because I think moms, we we do tend to use food a lot in the wrong way. Is there anything that you would say kind of a simple thing, like what you just recommended with asleep is there kind of a food equivalent of that, that you would say if this is a struggle for you and you either gained a lot of weight or you've lost a lot of weight? Is there anything that you could say you might want to try this.
Jessica 38:57
And those would be two different recommendations because those are two different situations. So for somebody who has gained weight to them, I would say that that's actually a very natural physical response to protecting yourself. So in Ayurveda, we actually look at the weight that someone has put on their body as padding, you know, from you know, to protect them from what's going on around them. So for them just to understand their bodies in that way and how intuitive that is for their bodies. I think that helps. But and then to look at the food that they're moving towards their comfort foods. And comfort foods are not a bowl of greens.
Brenda 39:47
Unfortunately,
Jessica 39:50
right, but comfort foods are something that really fill the belly and we just feel some kind of heaviness there. And that's comforting. So I wouldn't recommend to those gals to not have those foods anymore. What I would recommend is have your comfort foods. But while you're eating it, do it mindfully so you're really there and enjoying what the food is giving you that it's giving you that comfort, feel the heaviness in the belly. When you do that, when you sit in, you notice what the food is doing for you emotionally. People tend to feel more satisfied more quickly. And they won't overeat.
Brenda 40:30
That is really interesting. So just be more mindful,
Jessica 40:34
be more mindful. Yeah. So for someone who has lost a lot of weight, so for this person, my thought would be that they are feeling all their emotions right in their belly. And so their appetite has literally left. So looking at food, for them might actually feel kind of repulsive to them, right? Because the belly is just not happy. And so foods not going down well. And that's, in Ayurveda, we understand that there is a direct line from the mind to the gut. Now, of course, in the Western world beautifully. We understand that too. You know, now we look at the gut biome and how I think it's 90% of the nervous system is in the gut lining. You know, I love how Western research is proving Ayurveda, right, I'm like, all right!
Brenda 41:25
But you could have just looked back…
Jessica 41:28
Well, we all know this too, butterflies in our stomach, gut wrenching, we have a built in language, but a feeling like that, that's perfectly understandable. So what I would have them do is try to make an effort to eat five small meals a day. And when they eat those five small meals, the best ones are going to be cooked, warm and soft, so really easy to digest. And when they eat those meals for them to kind of make sure that they're somewhere calm. You know, even if they're, let's say on the road, if they could just pull off the road and park their car. So they're facing a tree, just one tree, even if it's in a big parking lot, that's fine. And say, I'm just going to sit here and eat my little meal. And for these few minutes, I'm just going to taste the food. And notice how it feels. Right. And so again, the food is going to be really easy to digest, so less likely to bother belly. And they're going to be in a calm setting while they eat and it's going to be small meals.
Brenda 42:38
So like, I should pay you for this because this is me. I'm actually going to try this because this is me. I'm a stressed non eater. So that's so great, because you just don't hear this, I think in Western medicine, or it just like it does feel so normal and kind of common sense. But I just don't think we hear enough of this, to really be mindful and think about where you're eating versus just what you're eating. So that's just that's hugely valuable.
Jessica 43:17
Yeah, I think something I really appreciate about these studies - the Ayurveda, the yogic studies, is that when you are when I'm learning these concepts, when my clients are learning this concept, they something inside of you just rings true. You know, it's like, no, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's true, that's logical. And I love that because there's no, there's no buy in, there's no like leap of faith like, oh, okay, well, you seem like, you know, what you're talking about, it's, you know, people get right on board with, yeah, I know that, that's going to make me feel better. So I'll do that. And it's okay. And I, you know, also with the message up, and you're going to make this change in small increments, because we also know that commitment and change are difficult to do, and we don't want to feel defeated.
Brenda 44:06
That is that is a huge part of it is just trying to, I think it's in our culture to just try to go straight from A to Z and we forget that there's, you know, a lot of letters in the alphabet and that we can progress slowly through because we just want to get to the end result and we would be so much better off sort of getting that step by step success. And recognizing that and then moving to the next one, instead of just jumping to what we want in the end and then getting discouraged and then stopping altogether.
Jessica 44:41
And what that step by step process also does is it allows you to get out of that habit. Right, and it allows you to work with all those parts of you that have a hard time changing that habit. You know, we try to just force these habits to change, there's going to be a part of us that's going to go kicking and screaming and not give those up easily. So when you do the changes slowly, you're allowing yourself to process. This is hard, I really don't want to do this and you find you can, you know, kind of deal with that part of yourself that comes up, and is resistant to doing something like exercising for five minutes. And then you can really kind of meet that part of yourself, and be like, wow, I'm really resistant to even taking five minutes. For myself. That's, that's interesting, I never noticed that. There's that part of myself. And look here, I'm going to go ahead and do that five minutes. And let that part of myself see that it's not a big deal. It's okay, I have five minutes. And then, you know, you kind of alleviate that part of, of our culture and of ourselves, you know, we believe we adopted that belief, I don't have time to take care of myself. And so we then challenge that belief, when we take the five minutes, and then we're successful in challenging it because the world around us doesn't fall apart. Because we've taken five minutes.
Brenda 46:12
right? The world survived without me for those five minutes!
Jessica 46:16
it's survived. And then you say, Well, I wonder if, if I could take 10? We can we just right here, kind of challenging. And seeing, oh, it's fine. Oh, actually, my partner, or my co workers, kind of looked at me and treated me differently today, because I think I showed up differently. So everything around me actually supports these changes I'm making, it's good to challenge those beliefs. And that's a lot of what these changes do these small increments. We call them beliefs, we can also call them habits. So our ways of adapting to our life.
Brenda 46:52
And I think it's important to recognize what you're saying is that it's not just that you do this, but that you also observe what it's doing or how you're feeling. So it's not just, well, that five minutes was hard. And then I'm off on my day, but it's like, Huh, kind of really spending a minute to think like, why was that hard? Or, you know, why was it easy or whatever, whatever that is, but I think that's an important step that sometimes we miss is we just rush out of things before we step back and look at it almost from like a out of body thing to look at what we're doing and say, Hmm, that was interesting. Why did that feel hard? Or why did that make me feel better? And if you miss that part of it, then you almost missed the learning within that experiment.
Jessica 47:43
Find that it's almost impossible to miss that part of it. Because it's yelling and screaming, I don't have five minutes. And then my client come in and say, you know, I call it Ayurvedic confessions. I didn't do the five minutes. And I say, did you try? And yes, I did. And I said, great, that means you were successful. So let's talk about what happened. No, because that's them observing. Well, I'm, we're watching ourselves, like, not be able to do the five minutes and watching ourselves, talk ourselves out of it. And so even when you're not doing the commitment, you're still committing. So it's great.
Brenda 48:22
I love that. I love that. Is there something that, like a question that you get all the time that you kind of wish that you could just write it on a business card and hand it out to people? The answer because you get asked so often? Or is there are myths that you hear about Ayurveda or just in general around what you do that you would like to sort of clear up or answer for people?
Jessica 48:47
Well see, a few things are popping up and clamoring for attention. I think, let's see. Okay. So, some people feel that because yoga and Ayurveda are holistic and there is a spirit there is a spiritual aspect, that there that there's some kind of religious tie to to this science, I mean, honestly, they are sciences, because they're really studies in depth studies and understandings of the human body and and the mental body. So I'd love to clear that up. Really, the only you know, the only way that Ayurveda, yoga, this Vedic understanding would explain the spirit or soul is that you know, there is consciousness and consciousness is, you know, can't be named or explained or studied. It really just is. And for you know, they encourage that every single human, every individual, try to connect with their own consciousness, you know, make time in their lives, to connect with consciousness because it's very much so part of us it's what really energizes us, what is the energy behind our pulse, behind our thinking, behind our seeking to love and connect with others. But there's not this Vedic philosophy, there's not this huge, you know, expounding upon what consciousness is, there's more of an encouragement for people to connect with consciousness in whatever way feels right for them. And that's it.
Brenda 50:34
I'm so glad you said that. Because a lot of people do, I think, start looking at, you know, you get to a point where you, you know, you need something else. And so you start looking at alternate what might be considered alternative modalities, and then think, Oh, well, but I'm Catholic, or I'm Presbyterian, or I'm, whatever it is that you are, from a religious standpoint and think, oh, that can't be for me. And what you're saying is no, this is not a religious thing at all, this is a scientific thing that is, is something that is is not rooted in any sort of a religion,
Jessica 51:13
and its support that they are in their religion, it absolutely is saying, yes, that's an important part of life.
Brenda 51:23
That's really, really valuable to know, because I think there is a lot of confusion about that. And I also know from my quick exploration, that this dates back, you know, thousands and thousands of years, this is not something that some guy cooked up in his kitchen in the Bronx 20 years ago. So I think that's also important.
Jessica 51:46
I love that visual, that's great. Yeah. And you know, what's interesting is there's no real historical timeline. Because they simply didn't keep history, like, you know, logs or written history, then a lot of this knowledge was passed along through, you know, in teachings that were sung and said, kind of in poetry so that they remember it. And eventually it was written down. So I believe the first written record is about 15,000 years old. .
Brenda 52:20
Okay, well, that's a good amount of time to have proven results,
Jessica 52:25
scholars will argue and argue amongst each other over what the date is, right? I'm not a scholar, so I don't have to be in that. I just know, it works.
Brenda 52:34
That's great. Well, I there's so so so much in this, but I can just tell with your voice and your passion that you're, you're just so knowledgeable in this and that you live and eat and breathe this. And I'm just wondering, what do you love most about what you do?
Jessica 52:53
working with clients, I really, it's it's touching, being part of clients lives and, you know, being part of such an intimate part of their lives, being that holding that space for them, that's outside of all of their obligations. When people come here to my space, I encourage them to think of this as a space that you're just for them. There is no obligations, it's just show up. And you know, our time together is all about whatever they're needing in that moment. It's their time to rest. It's their time to, you know, talk about their day or not talk about their day, but it's really their healing time. And I just, I love being able to create that for people.
Brenda 53:43
Thtat's so special. How do people work with you? Because I can imagine there's a lot of listeners who right now are saying how do I get more of this information? Do you work with people just in person or virtually, or what's sort of your, your way of working with your clients.
Jessica 54:02
I'll do whichever the client is most comfortable with. So virtual or in person. I do have some groups that I'll be putting together and probably launching in January, though, I've got some folks nudging me to launch them a little earlier. So if your listeners want to check back on my website, I will list them list have my groups listed there. But people can just you know, people can, they're welcome to give me an email or a call or a text and asked me about how we can connect on I'm flexible on, you know, to meet whatever people are needing.
Brenda 54:42
That's great. And I'll put your website and all of that in the show notes. So if you're listening and you do want to connect with Jessica a little bit deeper and have more understanding of either you know how you can work with her or get resources. I'll put those in the show notes. So make sure you get over to those and then, are there any resources like a book or podcast or a website, or anything that you think is helpful for people who might just be starting out on this, you know, exploration of Ayurveda and just wanting to kind of soak up more information.
Jessica 55:15
My favorite intro to Ayurveda book is by Judith Morrison. And it's called The Book of Ayurveda. And I just think she covers every part of Ayurveda that, that I think is important, and she does it beautifully. Simply lots of diagrams. That would be where I'd start.
Brenda 55:37
Awesome. I love pictures, pictures are always helpful.
Jessica 55:43
Yes. And if people are interested in watching, you know, podcasts, if they go to lifespa.com Dr. John Douillard. So he practices Ayurveda, he's also an MD. He's got lots of podcasts on there. So that's covering all sorts of topics. And they're nice and short, too. There'll be from five minutes to 15 minutes. And he breaks things down really, really simply too.
Brenda 56:12
Great, that's great. Awesome. Well, I will put all those in the show notes. So you can just go there and access those. And thank you so very much. This has just been incredible. And, you know, maybe we can do a part two, where we dive a little bit deeper, because I know that there's so much information to cover. But thank you for giving us your time and your expertise and, and just sharing everything that you know about this. It's it's really, really generous of you.
Jessica 56:39
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Brenda, and thank you so much for what you do for our community. It's wonderful.
Brenda
If you're a mom listening to this and thinking, there must be other moms out there listening to, I can tell you that there are thousands of other moms that are searching for this same information. And for a more personal connection. You can find me and a bunch of these moms by going to my website, BrendaZane.com. And there you will get lots of information about a really special online community of moms called The Stream. We have regular calls and chat sessions. We do a monthly yoga class for stress and anxiety. And it's all positively focused. It is not on Facebook, and it's completely confidential. Membership is on a pay what you can model, so if you want to join this community, and you need the support, you are in.
You might also want to download my free ebook called HINDSIGHT: Three Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted To Drugs. It is packed with information that I truly wish I had known back in the darker years with my son. And so I share it now in case it might be helpful to you in your journey. You can get that at Brendazane.com/hindsight, and I will put a link to both of these resources in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for listening. I'll meet you right back here next week.