knowing when to intervene: recognizing when your teen needs help even if drugs aren't the problem with Annika
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @the.stream.community
The Stream Community: online and app-based community for moms of kids experimenting with or addicted to drugs or alcohol
Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted to Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here
Guest: Annika
Resources:
Some of Annika’s favorite books:
Organizations:
NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School)
IECA (Independent Educational Consultants Assoc.)
Show Transcript:
SPEAKERS
Brenda Zane, Annika
Brenda 01:48
Hi friends, today I have an episode for you that I think is going to be especially helpful if you are the parent of a teen or young adult who is just not themselves, just not really thriving or growing as they should be, but drugs really aren't the problem. And that is a really confusing thing for some parents, you know, who are dealing with kids who are actively misusing substances, alcohol or drugs. You kind of know what you're dealing with. You might not know the whole picture, but you know what you're dealing with. And that can be a slightly easier path to pursue only because, you know, the devil that you're working with, I guess I could say. So if you have a kid who is refusing to get out of bed, refusing to go to school, but you're really not seeing and truly don't believe that substance use is a problem, where do you turn?
I spoke with my friend Annika for this podcast episode. She has a really interesting story to tell about her son and what her friends went through. And she did decide to just remain anonymous using her first name only for this because her son is fairly new into his new phase in life. And she just wanted to protect his anonymity in that. But she is a friend and neighbor of mine and also went through the same health and wellness coaching certification program through the Mayo Clinic that I did. And so we have a lot in common. So you'll enjoy just hearing our our friendly conversation. But you'll also learn a lot about what you can do as a parent and how you can intervene if your child is in that situation where you're just seeing them not be themselves but you don't have a lot of information to go on and you don't have a substance use issue to be dealing with. So with that, please enjoy this conversation with my friend Annika
Welcome Annika I'm so thrilled to have you here today. We we have a short history, but I feel like it's been pretty deep just because we we have some similar things in our lives. So thanks for being with me and welcome to help stream.
Annika 04:19
Thank you so much for having me.
Brenda 04:21
So I love to start out my episodes with something just to let people get to know you a little bit more personally. And so that question is What did you have for breakfast this morning? What did I have for breakfast this morning?
Annika 04:37
Well, I didn't eat until noon because I you know, I do intermittent fasting. Okay, so I had an egg on a piece of toast and a salad.
Brenda 04:51
Ooh, very nice. So do you do that every day? I'm so impressed with people who do that.
Annika 04:55
Yeah, you know I am. This is a fun question. I do it every day and I started it probably six years ago or so. And I just, I just kept doing it. Because I feel really good and energized in the mornings for some reason when I don't eat until noon.
Brenda 05:15
Wow, there you go. I've had so many, actually so many guests on that are doing intermittent fasting in various degrees. So sometimes it's you know, 10am or whatever. But, yeah, I hear some really good things about that. So, very interesting. So you really basically eat two meals a day? Is that how you do it? Like you're eating at noon and then you eat a dinner?
Annika 05:38
Well, ideally, yeah, but I mean, there are some, you know, snacks and things like that in between, sometimes it kind of depends on like, if I'm doing a hard workout, I'll usually have a little something before that, even if it's before noon. You know, and I don't, you know, typically I would not eat after 8pm, but yeah, I break that rule for going out to dinner and stuff. I'm not super, you know, restrictive about it.
Brenda 06:08
Right. Interesting. Well, that's very cool. Well, you and I met through sort of, it's a little bit of a wandering road, but we met because we are both health and wellness coaches and through the Mayo Clinic. And so when we we have that in common, which obviously is fun, and we love but then also, we have to we each have boys who went through some struggles and ended up really utilizing wilderness therapy as a way for them to get better. Mine definitely more extreme. I think, well, than most kids but, than yours, but I thought it would be important, and I'm really grateful for you to come on, to talk about wilderness therapy and also to talk about just the struggles that our young kids can go through. How that kind of impacts the family how you recognize those things, you know, and talk about how how did you know that this was something more than just sort of teenage angst. And so I would love it if you want to just give us just a quick background about you and your families or where you are what you do, you know, what, what your family looks like, and then we can dive into some more details.
Annika 07:25
Sure. Okay. So we, my husband and I, and our two boys were all in the just south of Edmonds area. I have one older son who's in college and one who is who just graduated from high school, virtually - exactly. We did do a parade up Main Street, so that was really fun. But, my husband's a physician. And then I was in the food business for a long time I was teaching cooking classes and then I just really after it experiencing this with our younger son, I really wanted to do something that felt more fulfilling to me. That's why and then, you know, I met you, I love to say I met you online.
Brenda 08:12
I know, we kind of did,
Annika 08:15
Yeah, I was like, and then we had coffee and we talked about it and it was just like, you know, I feel like we surpassed a whole lot of the initial stuff and went straight to getting to know each other really well. And, and you told me about the Mayo Clinic program, and I was obviously really excited and did it. I finished it this past April.
Brenda 08:35
Congratulations.
Annika 08:37
Thank you very much. And so I'm just finishing up my hours and going to get certified by them hopefully soon. And then, you know, and then move further on down that road.
Brenda 08:48
Awesome. So you sound like a fairly typical suburban family. You know, like a lot of us and so maybe talk a little bit about what was going on with your younger son when you started sort of noticing some things and what were you noticing and what was going on in your family at that point?
Annika 09:12
We are a very typical suburban family, I would say. And we, both boys were, you know, growing up really involved in sports and, you know, various things like that had large friend groups, great friend groups, when our youngest started having sort of struggling, you know, it was it was a huge shock for a variety of reasons. But, you know, he he was always really easygoing, very driven, it was a it was really surprising because he had never had any kind of behavioral issues or he didn't have any learning issues, which through this time that I've learned a lot over the past few years. And one thing that I have heard repeatedly is that a lot of kids start struggling, particularly in the middle school age group, they have had a learning issue that was undiagnosed, that kind of thing. And he didn't have any of those struggles and but he did have some anxiety that we did not know about.
And so initially, he started kind of late Middle School kind of lying about some things. We caught him in some lies. That was really surprising. And I thought, well, teenagers, that's not really a typical for teenagers to lie. And it kind of progressively got worse. He started high school, he put a lot of pressure on himself to take really hard classes, and he just started struggling in one particular class. And it was a class that you had to be there to get credit for. It was like a, I think he was going to get college credit for it. And if you weren't there every day on the online grade platform, it gave him an F for each day that he wasn't there. So he had been home sick with like the flu or something. And he saw that and thought he was failing the class of course. And he wasn't but he really started to fall down kind of at that point. And we realized he kind of had this idea of what perfect look like. And he was not fulfilling in his mind what perfection was. So he eventually he started self medicating a little bit with pot.
And, you know, it wasn't like he was going out partying. It was like solo in the backyard. And that was so shocking, just based on his personality and his history that we were really shocked when we found out - we probably had, or we didn't probably, we did have a little bit of an outsized reaction to that.
Brenda 12:07
Well, it sounds like it was it was fairly out of character for what he was this very driven sort of perfection seeking.
Annika 12:13
Yeah, absolutely. It was very out of character. And the thing is, is, you know, I am very well aware that kids are trying things here and there and all that and it's not necessarily abnormal for a kid to do that. But it was so out of character. I think we were in shock. And he was just he basically went into a deep shame spiral. So he then just basically refused to go to school. So that was his freshman year. He was kind of like, not going a few days here, not going a few days there. And then he ended up trying out for the soccer team, like late winter and made it and the, the coach and the athletic director were extremely supportive and believed accurately that exercise would be great for him. And so he should continue to go to practices and stuff. Even if he wasn't going to school, they would make an exception for him to exercise and that was great, you know, and he was on a soccer team, like a club soccer team, also in addition, but so he ended up doing that, and then toward the very end of the year ended up kind of quitting school together.
And he was doing some online stuff and he kind of stopped doing that. So we were just, honestly we were just in total shock that this whole thing was going we had no idea how to deal with this.
Brenda 13:45
And he's your younger, right? So you had an older son who was in school and doing fine and so then you have this younger son comes along. He's like, wait a minute, what's happening?
Annika 13:55
Yeah, absolutely. And completely out of character, and I I remember often feeling like, it's like, I don't know who this is, you know, it's so strange, but I thought, okay, you know, obviously we will do anything to figure out what we can do to help him etc. And so, we tried various therapists. We had him genetically tested to figure out what medications might work well for him. We tried some medications, and, you know, none of them really, he didn't really get any relief from the medications. But also, you know, we understand that medications are only a one portion of the solution. Right. So, and, you know, ultimately I don't think he was entirely ready to work on or in a place where he could work on what he needed to do so.
So then it was summer and we had a big trip to Europe planned, so my husband and I left for the first week with a group of friends and did a bike trip. And then we flew our boys over for the second week. And during that time, and we we went to another area with another family and their two daughters who are very close with our kids and stuff. And everybody was pretty normal. You know, I would say he was feeling okay. And I think that, you know, school wasn't in session and we were just hoping that you know, when school starts again, you know, we'll be able to kind of get him rolling and he'll have made some progress and he was doing DBT therapy at the time with a therapist that we really liked and and we were doing it sort of as a family too, and it was great and but we couldn't tell if he was really hooking into it or not.
So the summer goes on and you know, we come home and life is relatively normal, and then schools starting and we get him into some classes he really wants. So we're feeling really positive about it. And this is going to be my older son senior year now. So there's a lot going on with that. And, and so we were at, you know, we were gone for games and stuff in some evenings and our younger son never went to any of the games. And it was just kind of, it started out, he went to the first week of school, I think. And then he went one day, the next week, I think, one day, the next week, and then he basically went to bed and he didn't get up again.
Brenda 16:37
And did you know, did you know was he just completely feeling overly anxious or was he defiant? Like, kind of what was his interactions with you? Could you tell what was going on with him?
Annika 16:51
Yeah, so he was not, sometimes he would talk on the way home from therapy a little bit but his interactions were he basically would cover his face when we went into his room because he was so ashamed of himself.And I mean, obviously we told him, I can't I don't even know how many times that, you know, we're not ashamed of you, we're not disappointed in you, we're working through this, we're going to make this happen or whatever. And it just, but he was just too overwhelmed to be able to deal with it. So, you know, we were at a huge loss as to what to do. We couldn't get him to therapy. So I don't remember how we had done a lot of online research. And my husband had found that it's really great to seek out an educational consultant, and that they can help you whether it's placing you in a wilderness therapy program or what kinds of things out there. So we found someone who has a great reputation. And we ended up meeting with her for three hours and just went from pregnancy to, you know, present day at the time.
And she interviewed us about everything and took copious notes and then said, I'm going to get back to you after doing some research. And so she went and, you know, looked at there were a couple of wilderness programs she looked at one was her favorite for him. And so she picked that one basically let us know we got everything kind of lined up. And we decided that my husband and I decided that if he refuses therapy, this next week, we're going to basically get the ball rolling because we feel like there are no other options.
Brenda 18:52
So and how are you as a mom doing during this? What was your mental state, because you had a life and your friends and you have another son and how are you coping with that? That's a big decision to have to make.
Annika 19:12
You know, it felt devastating at the time. And I felt devastated. And, you know, I felt like I was traveling with my older son looking at schools for sports and, and actually also for school for this field trip they had and we were spending a lot of time together, which was great. So that was a distraction, but I felt this. Like I was really torn because I was trying to celebrate my older son and his senior year and everything that was going on with him. Meanwhile, I had one son at home who couldn't get out of bed and was, you know, just in his worst place and so, I would say for myself, I lost weight, I lost hair. I was incredibly stressed. I tried to put on a great face, I have a great therapist, and that really helped me a lot.
Brenda 20:11
That's huge...
Annika 20:15
It was huge. And I definitely appreciate that. But, having been through it and come out the other side. I mean, I learned a lot, I gained a tremendous amount of resilience from all of this. And, you know, while it was the hardest time of my life, I would never change it. Believe it or not, I would not change it.
Brenda 20:39
That's so interesting, did you when when do you think you sort of crossed into that feeling? Because I know just having gone through it as well. I would have I would have given anything to change it at the time. But same as you now sort of on the on the back end. it's different because it's you're terrified for your kid because you don't know what's going and you don't know where they're going to end up. But when do you think you sort of were able to turn the corner on how you feel about it?
Annika 21:07
That's a great question. I think, once he came home, I mean, when he left it was, you know, horrifying and I but I also felt like he's safe. He's going to something to a place with an amazing reputation. All this although I had no idea about wilderness therapy. I mean, I hadn't even heard of it really before. So it was sort of this new experience. And it felt really nebulous, and, you know, we were jumping off, you know, with two feet and hoping for the best and I think, the first time we visited him, I, it was so joyful, and I felt so much hope for him and I felt like we have him back, like 2.0 and I started to really feel like this is going to be a life experience for every one that is, is going to be really good for us. But I would say that I was really firm on that after he came home. He spent seven or eight months in a boarding school afterwards, and I think after that, and he came home, and we felt really solid about his, all the work he had done, it felt like this is this is great. I mean, this is amazing. And he for the rest of his life, you know, he's not face planting in college or when he's 30 or whatever. Now, he did it when we could just take charge and make a decision for him, you know,
Brenda 22:41
Right, because as scary as it is for the parent to to see this happening. And you see your child sort of withdrawing and disappearing and like you said, I don't even know who this is. It's scary for us, but think of how scary it is for them too so, I think you're really wise to have stepped in, and you really do have to kind of muster a strength and a braveness that you probably never thought you were going to have to to know. Because did he get transported or how did it come about that he actually got to the wilderness program?
Annika 23:17
Yeah. So he got transported, and we had them coming on an evening, during the week, and he had seen a text on my husband's phone. So he knew that something was going to happen. But he didn't know. But he assumed I found this out later when he went to bed that well, nothing has happened. So I guess it's not happening.
Brenda 23:44
And yeah, and little did he know…
Annika 23:47
And so at 11 o'clock, they came and I mean, it was surreal for me personally, I was completely... it was like an out of body experience. Almost. I was so like, anxious and stressed about it. On the outside, I was completely pretty calm. I mean, I cried a little bit, but I was very like, I'm doing this keeping this together right now just to make them and, and it took him about 45 minutes with them and us we introduced them. They came in and he you know, he was in bed, obviously and he had to get dressed. And he definitely panicked. He didn't try to leave or do anything like that. I mean, he was, you know, you he really and then at the end, you know, it took about 45 minutes and then they got in the car and actually on the way into the car we all hugged and said goodbye. And he just said, Thank you so much. I love you and you're right. I can't do this by myself.
Brenda 24:52
Oh wow.
Annika 24:53
And so you know, we consider that obviously a tremendous gift. And just, knowing I mean, the I know a lot of people that have done this now, as I do talk to a lot of parents, and, you know, I know kids that have tried to get out of the car, and done various other things to, you know, out of lashing out and emotion and all that. And he made it really easy in that regard. And we got periodic updates, and he got there and they set him up. And we got updates on how he was doing and stuff and then we started the whole process.
Brenda 25:33
Wow. Well, that shows a level of maturity on his part to be able to recognize that in that moment, because, you know, that's just got to be terrifying for a kid and I've talked to my son about this to to, you know, wake up and you've got two strangers in your bedroom, and it's very traumatic. And so I'm really impressed that he had the kind of wherewithal to recognize that this was something that you were doing for him and not to him.
Annika 25:59
Yes. That's exactly that's exactly right. You know, and we've got all the words we could say, and you know, we let them go. And then we just put one foot in front of the other. But everything improved from then on out.
Brenda 26:18
And what was happening with your older son because I know that there's a weird dynamic in the house when one is really struggling and not normal. And I don't. In our house, we did a lot of sort of what I call tap dancing, trying to make, everything's okay. Everything's okay. When it really wasn't. So then what happened within the dynamic of your family once he went off to the program?
Annika 26:40
So our older son was incredibly supportive. And of course, he was facing people at school asking what happened, what happened with your brother? And so that was a challenge. But, you know, we were really honest with him, and obviously, he knew that he wasn't getting out of bed. And he was trying to be supportive, and he would try to talk to them and stuff. But you know, he was incredibly busy and a senior in high school and didn't really know what to say or, I mean, none of us did, right. So we all just tried to live our lives. And then once he was gone, everything kind of fell into a more like natural rhythm because it was like, okay, we can breathe again. You know, we're not afraid of what's coming down the road or what could happen or anything like that. Now, we know, he's in a place that's safe and all that.
So we just kind of continued and we participated in all the things, my husband and I went out for the couples, they do a couples weekend. And that was great. And then we did, and this was really great. We did what's called Family Quest, and it's a weekend you go out and the whole family hopefully goes and our whole family did. So the three of us went out. And we spent the weekend with our youngest son and two therapists. And we basically, like, had this conversation had many conversations that were just really healthy, really clarifying, really forgiving and loving and empathic, and compassionate. And if there was any air, that wasn't clear, we cleared it. And it just felt like it just felt so amazing. Plus, the venue is pretty incredible. But it was in November, and so it was extremely cold.
Brenda 28:40
Oh, wow, so what state was he in?
Annika 28:44
He was in Utah
Brenda 28:45
Utah in November!
Brenda 28:47
Yeah, it was, he was at Open Sky and so in the fall and winter, they're in Utah. And in the spring and summer, they have property in Colorado.
Brenda 29:02
Got it, Okay.
Annika 29:03
Yeah. And so it's the most beautiful location. I mean, it's inspiring. And you know, they pack every day and they do all this stuff. And it was just you could see him, like, you could see his strength and confidence. And it was astonishing to see him in person. And in the meantime, we had been writing letters, we had weekly conversations with his therapist, and we were understanding where he was how he was doing, and you know, how he was reacting to everything. And he really did jump in with both feet after probably two weeks of just feeling really sad. He then really jumped in and went to work and, you know, and did it.
Brenda 29:43
That's so great. I think it's such an important story to share. Because you know, my story, my son was in a very different place. He was dealing drugs and involved in all kinds of really horrible things and I just I think it's important for families to know that if your child is struggling, it doesn't have to get to such an extreme, like my son to find help for them. And then to know that, because I don't know about you, but I just felt like oh my gosh, my son's never gonna forgive me, like, I'm kidnapping him from his room in the middle of the night. This is, you know, this is going to go horribly wrong. And I think it's really important for them to hear that, first of all, you know, kids don't have to be in truancy. And, you know, getting arrested. I mean, having those kinds of things happen if you are really an aware parent, and you're seeing your child struggle, like you did with, you know, anxiety and some depression and all of that it is really important to step in.
Annika 30:46
Yes, absolutely. And it is, but I agree, and I mean, honestly, as parents, I know a lot of parents who've been through this now, as I mentioned, and, and they're all good parents, I mean, nobody's perfect, but they're all good loving, caring parents who didn't know what to do didn't know when to step in it felt extreme, and, people don't want to talk about it. And, you know, there's rumors out there about, you know, who's doing what and when, and with whom. And, you know, everybody's afraid of that in their communities and things like that. And, you know, we have to talk about these things, for our kids to feel okay to talk about them. And for parents to say, I need help. I don't know what to do. And I think we were relatively aggressive in, in what we did, but he also made it really easy for us ultimately, by not getting out of bed, because it was just a full collapse ultimately.
Brenda 31:46
And and how old was he at that point?
Annika 31:49
He was 15
Brenda 31:50
15. Okay, yeah, so that's not normal. I mean, at 15 and, and this is something I don't know if you felt this way, but I know that sometimes because it's what you're experiencing you kind of forget that things aren't normal. And so, sometimes you have to step back and go, oh, wait a minute at 15 they should be out doing sports and like, they should be so active that you have to hold them down to get them to sit down. Right. And so when you've got one who's not getting out of bed who won't participate won't go to school. That is that's a big signal that something's not right. And, and yeah, it does seem extreme. And I've had people say wow, I was really extreme you, you know, basically signed your son's custody over to people in another state that you'd never met. I was like, yeah, cuz that's what he needed.
Annika 32:42
Yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's obviously scary. And I had a couple of moms that I knew through a friend. So one of my closest friends has two neighbors, essentially that had gone through this with their boys. And she immediately introduced me once I told her what was going on and what we're thinking. She said, okay, you need to meet them. And they literally held my hand through the process. And so I felt like they were further ahead than I was a few months. And so I felt less like he would never speak to me again.
Brenda 33:23
You had a little bit of a heads up.
Annika 33:24
Yeah, I did. And I really feel thankful about that. And I try to, I always say that I'm available to talk to people about this, because, you know, having come out the other side and meeting amazing parents and families at wilderness, you know, who have been through this and who never expected it, or maybe they did expect it because their kid had been troubled for a while or whatever. But it's like, talking to other people. It invites you to a community that maybe you didn't want to be part of, but boy, you get a lot out And then you're so incredibly thankful for having these people in your life.
Brenda 34:06
Right, yeah, and that's, it is so important. And that's, you know, that's why I started The Stream community so that other moms could come in and say, holy cow, this is what I'm going through. And, you know, it does help to have somebody who's a little bit further down the road, so that you can ask those questions so that you can see the success because I think, you know, and you guys have probably felt this to like that time when he was there and your time as a family. That is just like, golden, invaluable time that you could never replace. And those are the things that if you're in the heat of the moment, and maybe you're in the weeks leading up to having to make a decision, you're not necessarily thinking about the fact that this is going to have five years down the road or 10 years down the road. But there's some really, really positive things. What would you say are a couple of things that you've noticed in him or that you think he or you as a family took from that experience that that you kind of take with you now into the future?
Annika 35:08
Well, I think the number one thing that I think we take is resilience. And I think that we all gained a lot of resilience from this experience. You know, once you go through something really challenging, you realize I got through that, and I was able to do it. And we survived it. And we were closer now. And we, you know, now we have this really honest relationship. And I would say for him moving forward, I don't have any concerns at all about sort of his mental health or how he's doing and he's about to launch to college, you know, hopefully, but I don't feel stressed about him going or anything like that, because I feel that he's totally capable of managing whatever comes his way.
Brenda 36:00
That's a that's a great gift, and if he doesn't, he probably feels more open to talk to you now and to say, Mom, I'm really struggling with this because you've normalized the conversation about mental health and your family to not make it this shameful thing, but to actually make it like, I'm going to empower you by giving you this experience or these tools or this person or whatever it is.
Annika 36:26
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And he would say, now, I don't have anxiety and depression. I had it. I experienced it, and I was in it. But I got through it. And I now have tools to deal with any kind of stress. I have, you know, he's still he's extremely hard working. And, you know, he puts a lot of pressure on himself, but he realizes that there is no perfect and all that. But he's still a striver a really hard worker and so he's getting a lot of great benefits out of his personality without the things that are, you know that the challenges that he has, he's able to conquer those and deal with those. So, yeah.
Brenda 37:11
And as a family what's life like after after that? Do you guys feel a little bit more settled or because you know that can be, you know, you said you have total confidence in him sort of as a family. How are you guys feeling about sort of the future with him now?
Annika 37:31
You know, great. I don't have any qualms or concerns. I feel like he's 100% or more ready to launch and I think he knows what he wants and what he needs. You know, he's 18 years old. He's still, you know, got some growing to do, but he's, he's easy to live with. He's a good human being. He has a great group of friends. He kind of knows what he wants to do a moving forward in college, etc. And it would be difficult for me to wish for any different outcome. You know, we feel he put a lot of hard work we all put hard work in. But ultimately he did for himself, he put a tremendous amount of work into knowing himself, doing what he needs to do to live his best life. And, you know, I didn't know how to do that necessarily when I was 18. You know, but he benefited so much.
And my husband and I often say, I wish most if not all, kids could go to wilderness and experience this off the grid, especially now, you know, with the way our culture is in our, our world with screens and constant news cycle and we're constantly being inundated with information and just, you know, comparisons on you know, social media and all this kind of stuff and, and I wouldn't say my boys are super into social media, but I I still think it's not a real healthy thing that we have, you know, and it's hard. And I think that it would be great for all kids to be able to get away off the grid and have experiences and get to know themselves.
Brenda 39:15
I agree. I agree. I've talked with several owners of wilderness therapy programs, and they talk about - and I had never thought about this, but they talk about rites of passage and how we really, our culture does not have that anymore. And there's a lot of cultures that do still have rites of passage, and we've just lost that in North America. And so they have really made me think about an experience like wilderness wouldn't even have to be that it could be more of like an Outward Bound or something like that. That just lets kids be kids. Because 15-16 they are kids. And today you know our world just catapults them I feel like they go directly from like, 11 to an adult. And so to let them just be a kid and to learn some of those skills and to gain that self confidence and that self esteem of I did that, or I solved that problem is huge. So I agree, I think it should be just a standard thing that that, you know, teens have to do at some point.
Annika 40:25
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they have no time for boredom. They have no just unfettered brain time. It's, there's constant, like stimulation, and their brains are not mature. And then they have constant visuals and all kinds of things, you know, in life and, and they can't they don't gain that confidence that they would have and that they do when they go to, like wilderness or or like you mentioned Outward Bound are these NOLS programs are all these different things where they learn how to manage themselves in the world. With, with nothing, you know, in their hand or, like, you know what I mean? It's freeing.
Annika 41:07
And it's incredible and I wish it upon - that kind of outdoor experience, I should say upon our kids and that rite of passage, just like you said,
Brenda 41:21
Yeah, yeah. Well, this has been so helpful. And I'm really glad to have your story. And thank you for sharing it. Because I think there are a lot of parents, especially right now, when, you know, I think if my son had been home right now with COVID, with isolation and everything that's going on, I would have lost my mind. So, I think, for parents who are now probably seeing their kids more than they have in the past, and they may be noticing some of these tendencies, maybe they're really isolating alone in their room playing video games, or, you know, like you said, they're self medicating with marijuana, and I think there's an I've talked to a lot of parents who say, Well, at least it's just pot, right, at least it's just, he's smoking some weed. And I think if you're seeing a lot of these signals that could be a dangerous assumption, or a feeling of safety is, is that it's not just weed. It's, you know, their mental health overall. And just so many more opportunities to see what's going on with kids right now is their home a little bit more. And the great news is that these programs are open, they are an essential service for our health and wellness. And so, if somebody's listening and you've been thinking, you know, maybe this is a direction I want to explore, they are open and taking kids and, and also just in the last couple of weeks have talked to a couple of different educational consultants and they've said these kids are thriving in these programs. Right now because they have something to do, their education is continuing. They're socializing, because they're basically you know, in, in isolation out in the hills in Utah or Montana or wherever. So, thank you for sharing that and really opening up about your son struggles and how that impacted your family. What would you say if a mom or dad is listening and they've they've got a kiddo who's you know, maybe where your son was a few years back? What would you say to them?
Annika 43:29
I would say that well I have tremendous empathy for that of course, but also to really if if you can and are willing to embrace a similar path or something like this, you know, and fear is is everything is the only thing that's stopping you to to embrace it and know do your research. Absolutely see an Educational Consultant, and reach out to to anyone who is willing to to talk to you, and there is a community of people out here and who are willing to talk to you and, you know, give you hope and perspective.
Brenda 44:09
Yeah. So important, so important to connect with others so well, my friend, it was wonderful to chat with you one of these days we'll be able to get together for coffee again.
Annika 44:19
Won't that be wonderful?
Brenda 44:22
That will be wonderful. I know I look forward to that we live I don't know five minute drive away from each other. I haven't seen you in months. Yeah. So crazy. Well, I really appreciate your your candor, and you're just your perspective, I think is very helpful for parents to hear. So thank you.
Brenda 44:44
Thank you so much for listening. I hope that that was informative and helpful if you're in that position and need to find some resources and know when to intervene for your child. It would mean the world to me if you would take 15 or 30 seconds and go to To the homescreen for Hopestream on your podcast app, and leave a rating and if you have an additional 15 seconds to review the podcast what that does is it bumps it up in their rating systems. And it just helps more parents find this information. So while you're also helping me you are helping the parents of other kids who are struggling and looking for this information as well.
And if you are a mom who's looking for some support, if you've got a kid who is either in treatment in some sort of program, or maybe they're not there yet, but they need to be, please check out The Stream, which is our online community for moms. You can find that at my website, BrendaZane.com. And from that site, you can also grab my free ebook that I wrote called HINDSIGHT, 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Addicted to Drugs, so you might gain some valuable information from that. Thanks for listening and I'll meet you back here next week.