Coaching Episode – Helping Your Child Progress Through Early Recovery and Adulting, with Alice
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Guest: Alice
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About this episode:
After going to wilderness therapy and a therapeutic boarding school, Alice’s son is now an 18-year-old holding down a heavy load including work, volunteering and school in sober living. But the everyday things that Alice used to do for him at home – laundry, groceries, appointments, picking up prescriptions – are starting to create a level of stress that is no longer buffered by substances. Listen in to hear Alice’s questions about boundaries, helping, and how to know what the right amount of support is for a young person new to recovery and working on “adulting.”
Episode resources:
Telos (Therapeutic Boarding School)
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00;00;01;23
Alice
We were doing everything for him and then he transitioned to Wilderness and Telus. But he did not get practice cooking his own meals, going to the grocery store, figuring out what he needs. He's currently in sober living in Utah and then he's also working and he's trying to balance out his schedule, like make his appointment points, organize everything, go to his doctors.
The mom and me wants to like, come in and give him ideas and help him fix it. And and tell him what to do. And and then the part of me that's been on this journey and learning more knows, okay, that's going to be helpful. Pull back. But I feel that push pull within me. And so really trying to navigate through that has just been messy. It's been really messy.
00;00;47;06
Brenda
But you're listening to HopeStream, the place for those parenting teens and young adults who are misusing drugs and alcohol in a treatment program or working their way toward recovery. It's your private space to learn and to gain encouragement and understanding for me. Your host, Brenda Zane, and fellow parent to a child who struggled. And I'm so glad you're here to learn more about all the resources available to you besides a podcast.
Please head over to HopeStreamCommunity.org.
Hey there. So glad you're here today. We are back with a new coaching episode. These are really cool because you get to hear straight from someone who may be in very similar shoes to you about something that they're struggling with or change that they are looking to make in themselves. And then we just work through it together.
I met Alice in February of 2022 when she joined the Stream community, and I clearly remember the look of fear and anxiety in her eyes when she would join us on calls. And it is now incredible to see her and talk through the things that she shares in this conversation because she's had tremendous growth and development in her parenting and also just in how she thinks and navigates life.
Before we dive in, I will share that if you have been on the fence about joining her extreme community and specifically if you identify as a mom, step mom or a female caregiver or co-parent and you want to come hang out with me and Kathy and people like Alice at our signature retreat now is the time. This is the sign that you have been waiting for.
00;02;28;28
Brenda
If you're listening in real time, which is August of 2023, we are less than two months away from Restoration Mom Retreat, which takes place in Park City, Utah. And it would take another 20 minutes for me to describe how incredible and healing this retreat is. So I won't do that. Just trust me that we have so much fun.
We don't focus on our kids or addiction. It's a time when we just really let you receive because if you're like the rest of us, all you do all day, every day is give, give, give, give. So this is a time when you get to receive amazing food, fun activities. We have meaningful group sessions. It's just literally the healing power of community come to life.
I'll leave it at that. You can learn more at home. Stream Community dawg. Forward slash retreats. Okay. This is a beautiful in real conversation. Alice received a phone call from her son about 10 minutes before we spoke, and that fueled some of what we covered. So take a listen and I'll see you on the other side.
00;03;47;23
Brenda
Good morning, Alice. How are you doing today?
00;03;51;22
Alice
Good morning. I'm good. Good to be here. Good.
00;03;56;00
Brenda
We did a coaching episode at the beginning of your journey, and I love doing a follow up. I was thinking that that might be a good thing to do, is just to check in with people who we've done coaching episodes with because it's kind of like a cliffhanger, right? It's like what happened? So you've been on quite a roller coaster ride since we last talked, so why don't you just catch us up?
And if you're listening and you want to listen to the first part of this, you're going to look for the episode, the coaching episode with Lynn. I'll put in the show notes that the episode number I can't remember what number it is, but I'll put that in. So if you want to kind of get part one, you could listen to
So why don't you just give us a little snapshot of where things stand today and then we'll dive into what you want to get some coaching on? Sure.
00;04;44;12
Alice
Sure. So when we when the first coaching I've said I was on was the panel I was on the what the panel. We're in the middle. But in the beginning of his recovery, part of his journey, we were in the middle of his addiction. He was kind of in the throes of it. And at that point, I was just learning invitation to change and just beginning to learn a different way to communicate with him.
And I felt like that was super helpful and his dad, who couldn't be here today, he was going to try to be here but couldn't be here today. I was kind of filling him in. Now he's a member of the woods, but before I was filling him in as to invitations to change in different ways to communicate. And so we were both kind of getting on the same page, trying to change the way that we interacted with Jake.
And I believe we don't know for sure, but I really believe that was an open door that and amongst other things, to get him to be open to treatment. He decided on his own. He came to us and and and said, I know I need treatment. And we had already been in the works working with an education consultant.
So we already had everything kind of set up. And so then he went to Wilderness for a couple of months and then he went to a therapeutic boarding school for about 11 and a half months, and he recently discharged in July and he turned 18 July 11, and he discharged July 12th. Actually, I went and helped him transition.
00;06;12;16
Alice
Now he's currently in sober living in Utah. So why I'm here today now that he's 18, he's doing and he's living in sober living, which is independent living, he's doing some more adulting, which is new and different for him. He's you know, going to grocery store, make his own food, balancing out work and school. And I hope he's doing IAP four times a week.
So he's just he's really in it. And where I'm starting to kind of like navigate through and feel like it's like a push pull is how much do I come in and and be part of his journey and then how much do I give him space and respect his space as an adult now and we actually just got off the phone about 5 minutes ago.
So it's perfect timing. Exactly perfect timing. And he recently got a couple of tickets, car ticket, speeding ticket. So he got one and see a week or two ago and he called us about it and then he got another one. It I felt like the conversation went pretty smooth and I kind of laughed with him and I just said, it's gonna get kind of expensive.
And he was able to share that. He's feeling overwhelmed with trying to balance it all and juggling it all. And I felt like we were able to have a conversation where I could validate him and we could really talk about it. But I guess I'm.
00;07;45;28
Alice
Wanting to know because, you know, the mom and me wants to, like, come in and give him ideas and help him fix it and and tell him what to do. And and then the part of me that's been on this journey and learning more knows, okay, that's going to be helpful. Pull back. And but I feel that push pull within me and so really trying to navigate through that has just been messy.
Yeah, it's been really good. And I have naturally high anxiety and so that's in the mix.
00;08;18;16
Brenda
Because why not, right? Why not throw just something else? Yeah, exactly. Well, I know you've done so much work since you joined the community, and, you know, it's one thing to take classes and as you know, like, you take the classes and you learn and you've even done, like, the professional level training and but then when it comes to you're in the moment and it's like, oh, what do I say now?
Well, like, where are all my tools? Like, you look down on your tool belt looks really full, but you can't find the right one. I guess I'd like to hear a little bit more about how you feel he's doing. So you said he's overwhelmed to some degree. He's doing a lot of new things. So he's really you know, and if if you're listening, you don't know, sober living when you're 18 is depending on the program.
But for the most part, it's like you're living life, you're doing your thing, you just happen to have a little bit more structure around you where you're not living with a roommate who's drinking every night or whatever. But it's, yeah, like you said, it's adulting. Like they're they're doing it. And so tell me a little bit more about what you think is going on with him from that standpoint.
00;09;38;07
Alice
I had a sense that he might feel that way even before he transitioned because when he left our house he was 16. And what this probably is it healthy, but we were doing everything for him. You know, we were we were doing his laundry, we were cooking his meals. We were. And then he transitioned to wilderness and kilos.
And it was he got some life skills for like just a few weeks. But he did not get practice cooking his own meals, going to the grocery store, figuring out what he needs and, you know, the times that he was in school, in high school, which which is more of a higher level class, he was high most of the time.
Yeah. So now he's in a college which is new, which is different now doing inquires how to work. And he's not happy. So he's realizing this this he's feeling this stress. He's not numbing to the stress of it. He also he has ADHD. So executive functioning is something that has never been super. His favorite thing. It's not his favorite thing.
He's got many guests, but and then he's also working and he's trying to balance out his schedule, like make his appointments, organize everything, go to his doctors, and then and then go pick up the prescription from the pharmacy. And it's all those things that we just used to do he is now doing. And I had a feeling he would feel overwhelmed.
00;11;07;14
Alice
And that was kind of the push full of like, how much do I come in and and help him, and then how much do I pull back? So one thing I am doing and I'd be curious your thoughts on this is, you know, Apple, you can do a family schedule. And so I created a family schedule and his dad and I and him are on it.
And I asked him, I said, Hey, you know, how would you feel if I just put all your known appointments? He has a standing appointment at this therapist he's got. I hope the same days he's got certain things that are the same and I just put it all in the family calendar for you, and then you could just look at it.
And he said and he said, Sure. So he didn't push back on that. And I and I told him, I said, if ever this doesn't feel how, oh, you just tell me, I'll stop doing it. But I thought, that's one way I can help. As he's starting to kind of build his skills without, you know, coming in and taking over or doing it for him, which is, which is my past pattern, is I would come in and take over and do it for him.
00;12;11;00
Brenda
Well, that sounds it sounds like a really healthy launch into that to say, hey, and, you know, we talk about this a lot in the community is to to ask our kids what would feel supportive to you? Because I know what I think would be supportive. Like, I think it would be really great if I did this for you, if I took care of that or if you did it up.
But we don't know for them. So I think asking that it sounds like you've had some of those conversations and and asking that permission is just really, I think, respectful to say and I've done the same thing like, hey, I notice like when we talk, you feel really overwhelmed by the scheduling thing. How could I help there so that they know that it's a optional that we're not just bulldozing in and like, here, I'm going to do this for you.
And and it may, I think is one of those things that sometimes we have to have that conversation ongoing to say, hey, let's try this calendar thing for like two weeks and we'll just check back in and see how it feels, because it may just still be overwhelming for him or if he's like like I know my son with ADHD or A.D.D., he can't look at schedules online.
He has to have a whiteboard with it on the wall where she's writing it, because having it on the computer is just way too does not work. So it's some even some things like that where you could think about are we even using the right format or the right, you know, kind of construct for this? Absolutely. But I mean, I know you guys have pretty good communication.
00;13;47;04
Brenda
Does does it feel like you can have some of those conversations to say, my tendency, buddy would be to come in and do X, Y, and Z it because I'm the crazy mom. That's just who I am and I love you to pieces. But I'm recognizing that that might not be helpful. So I'm going to resist doing that thing.
How could I actually be helpful to you? And they may say, I got it, I got it, Mom. Like, you know, I don't I don't need that. And then we have to respect that. Just like if it was a coworker, right, Or respect because client or a neighbor, if you said to your neighbor, Oh, it looks like your grass hasn't been mowed for three or four months, and you know that they have a broken arm and.
Right. You can sort of make some assumptions, but then sometimes assumptions are really dangerous as well. So be fair, you know, keeping those conversations going. But just erring on the side of taking ownership of our desire to control and take over.
00;14;56;17
Alice
I love that. I love that because I have no problem telling on myself. I have no problem saying this is my anxiety that's coming through because I love you so much and I want you to be okay. So I fully own that. And would it be helpful if I did this? And you can say, No, Mom, that won't be helpful and I will not take offense right at all.
Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
00;15;20;05
Brenda
And, and then that just gives him the knowledge that, you know, there is support there if I need it and, and sometimes also and I'm sure these might be conversations that you've also had is to share what struggles we have because I think we forget often our kids are watching us. And what I hear from a lot of the people that I talk with on the podcast about if you are in recovery, are like, Yeah, you know, I just looked at my parents and I figured they had it all together Like I couldn't I just couldn't ever imagine myself getting to that point because my parents always did everything right and they always had the
right answer. And they, you know, they knew how to handle things. And so when our kids are struggling like that, sometimes just being able to relate and say, man, you know, when I get overwhelmed with my schedule, this is how I feel. And we don't even have to tell them necessarily how we resolve it, because sometimes we want to do that, like through osmosis.
We want them to pick up on like, Ooh, if I tell them like, this is how I manage it, maybe I'll do that. But just to be able to provide some of that perspective of like, man, I get so overwhelmed sometimes or I get so anxious about this, I can imagine it must feel really overwhelming to now be doing all of the stuff that your dad and I used to do for you.
That must be a lot. Yeah. And then shut our mouth and then.
00;16;55;06
Alice
And then stop. Yeah.
00;16;57;13
Brenda
We don't have to solve it. We can just say that must be a lot. And then he'll have the opportunity to respond to that. And also just acknowledging, you know, this must be a really hard time to be 18. We know the challenges that we had, but we don't know what it's like to be 18 in the year 2023.
But just validating how hard that must be. And then it could also be validating what's kind of cool about it. Like what's cool about being 18 and 2023?
00;17;37;20
Alice
Yeah, yeah, I like that. Like even just generating just some more discussion, like what are the hard parts, what are the cool parts? And just being able to open up that dialog. So because sometimes our conversations can get well, I feel like our communication has gotten so much better and I feel like we do have good relationships. Sometimes our communication can get just focused on what's the next thing.
Like, okay, get registered for school, okay, pay that to get okay, you know, whatever it might be. And and we don't get into some of those more enjoyable conversations. Like what's it like being an 18 year old and then 23, you know, just some more of us getting to know how we think kind of conversations.
00;18;23;26
Brenda
Yeah. And also getting to know him because like you said, it's been two years since he left your house and think about all the things he's done and learned and the people he's met.
00;18;37;07
Alice
And he is much more mature than he was two years ago. Like you, we have seen the growth and maturity and him, you know, and even if I think about it, you know, I knew the sweet Jake as a child and then when he moved into teen is when he started getting high so he was high all the time and so his sweetness is back but along with more maturity and growth.
So it's in some ways it's it's it's the Jake we know and love and in some ways it's new. It's a new Jake, too. Yeah.
00;19;10;03
Brenda
Yeah. And sharing that with him. Hey, man, you know, buddy, I don't know what people call their kids, but, like, it's so cool to see you go through this and and see that transformation from Hi Jake to wilderness Jake to treatment. Jake to now, like, all the cool stuff that you're doing and, and just sharing that you have witnessed that transformation in him and the growth and also that it's not always going to go perfect and that, you know, it's not always going to go perfect because that's the other thing I think is as our kids move through these different stages and treatment and sober living, there's I think they feel this is what I
hear a huge amount of pressure. Like, I know my parents just spent an insane amount of money to get me to where I am today. They are aware of that and I don't want to screw it up. And at the same time I have these different struggles and you know, it's awesome that he can call and tell you about speeding tickets because a lot of kids wouldn't do that.
They would just kind of, you know, I go, Oh, I don't want to. I don't want to share that. I want to just shift for a second and talk about you. Me But, but, but today, you I know a little bit about you because you're one of our rock star members, but I know you have anxiety and you've been working on that so much.
And there's this kind of like you talked about this dance that you're doing of how much do I step in? How much do I pull back? How much do I let him do it? If you weren't doing that dance in your head, what would you be using that time for?
00;20;59;26
Alice
Really good question. So often things that are going on in our lives like the step, like the way I relate to Jake sometimes is very much the way I relate to life. Right? So right now I am looking at making some changes in my life, but I'm not sure yet, you know, if I want to. So I'm feeling that push and pull right there.
But I think if I was able to have just that face, just that piece and that space, I would read a lot more because I really love to read. I feel like I don't ever have time and I it's because I don't make time to read. I would be out in nature a lot more. I do feel like I get some really good time to pray and meditate.
Both of those things are super helpful and important and grounding for me and just sort of like daily, kind of just like daily bread for me. And I would probably just do more fun things like be adventurous and go out and do fun things with friends and and that kind of thing is probably what I would do.
00;22;10;27
Brenda
What do you notice about how you are when when these things like reading and nature and fun are a little more absent?
00;22;22;25
Alice
It's usually because I feel unrest or I'm not at peace about something like I'm spinning inside and I can't wrap. And that's a familiar feeling, right like that. That's sort of and that it's that sense of like always in our life, there's a level of uncertainty. This is going on, this is going on, this is unknown. This is you know, there's always something in transition.
And that's hard for me to sit with transition. I like things to be like tied up in about. Right. And that's why I that's why I'm a fixer. That's why I used to fix Jake all the time, right? It's like I didn't like chaos. I don't like chaos. And so I like to have everything in its place. And so I think for me, it's learning how to be at peace.
In the chaos. Our chaos now looks different than it did when Jake was active in his addiction. But there's always going to be a level of chaos in in our lives, anybody's lives. And so how do I be able to enjoy and have a joy and laughter and fun even when there's uncertainty, even when there's places in my life that are in limbo?
00;23;42;26
Brenda
Hey, did you know Hope Stream Community is a nonprofit organization and we are so happy to provide financial scholarships to over a quarter of the parents who use our services. We have our first ever giving campaign happening right now. And if you're a podcast listener and you've benefited from the content here, we would love it if you'd help us keep this as a free resource for parents.
We're all about action at Hope's dream community and over 84% of our members say they've noticed an improvement in their relationship with their child since joining, and over 69% believe their child has accepted help in one form or another as a result of their experience with us. So we know lives are being changed and we want to be able to help even more parents.
If you're able to give to our Year of Hope campaign, please go to Hope's dream community, dawg. Forward slash donate to Learn more. Thank you. Now back to the show. He was kind of your project, period. Now the project is working on himself and so he doesn't need a project manager as much.
00;24;56;14
Alice
Right? Right.
00;24;57;19
Brenda
And so, you know, he may need a supervisor every once in a while to check in with and get some ideas from. But really, like, if you can kind of think of him as, Oh, my project has launched and and now he doesn't need the project manager. We especially his moms and dads too, but especially as moms, we get used to a level of unrest and uncertainty and anxiety that's super high, that is super unnatural, and it's been high for so long that we have forgotten how to function and how to how to bring it down.
00;25;39;14
Alice
Yes.
00;25;40;12
Brenda
And also it can be because now that project is missing, it's kind of like, oh, well, now what? And I know we don't think about that consciously, but kind of subconsciously it can be like, well, that thing that I was so focused on and I needed to be, and it's not that it was wrong for his be focused on helping him, but now that that is sort of like who okay, in a pretty good place and the project is managing himself now where do I spend that energy between?
A lot of times as women we don't naturally go, Oh, I could spend it on myself. Like what a novel concept that we could. We can now having a little bit of that space available. And you talked about reading and doing some fun stuff and nature. Is there anything else that when you kind of step back, if you were to go back to the 30,000 foot view to back, is there anything else that you would say in a year?
I would love to look back and go, Oh yeah, yeah, I made that change. Like, now I'm here. I used to be here or do this or think this or feel this, and now I'm this other way. Is there anything else that is kind of rumbling around in the back of your head.
00;27;08;15
Alice
When I'm able to connect back and say, I am living kangaroo with my value system, then whatever else is going around me, I'm more able to tolerate. Also, when I feel like I'm living in a way that's congruent with my boundaries, what I, I can and cannot have in my gate, so to speak. Whatever anybody else's response to that I'm okay with, right?
Yeah. It's it's it's when I feel like I be there. I'm either living in a way that's not congruent with my values or I haven't set a boundary that I really know would benefit me and the other person I spend more I get, I feel more anxious and I spend more so when I'm when I'm living in a way that's congruent with what feels right to my mind, heart, body and soul.
I'm that more peace, even even if there's chaos going around me. So that's where I'd want to be. I want to be in a place where more often than not, most of the time they know nothing's perfect. But most of the time I'm living congruent with what's up with my value system.
00;28;25;13
Brenda
Talk a little bit more about the the values that are really important to you that you would like to make sure your you're living concurrently with.
00;28;37;16
Alice
So the work that I do because I, I specialize in more coming alongside men and women who struggle with eating disorders, a value of mine is nourished that we nourish our bodies consistently and we get enough in and that we nourish our bodies with freedom, right? That we can eat what we want when we want without fear and guilt.
So for me, what that means for me is that I eat all foods and I nourish myself consistently. I don't skip meals. And then along with that, as I get adequate sleep, I ensure a lifestyle that gets me to bed on time. And I have time to to to unwind and relax and get, you know, a good, you know, 7 to 9 hours of sleep that I maintain healthy friendships and spend time with the people who are my people, because that to me creates a body.
Kindness like body kindness is a value of mine, of just creating a life that is kind to my body. I don't know if this is a value, but just a sense of a value is maintaining it, maintaining my relationships. So like, I think maintaining that relationship with Jake that no matter how his path, wherever his path leads him, that that I can I can say like the words and using with him the way I'm interacting with him creates someone of a safety that he feels like he can talk to me about things.
Yeah. And that way with anybody, really anyone important in my life. Yeah. All I really care about.
00;30;11;26
Brenda
I love your values. I think those are so great. And what I love about them is that they are measurable, actually. You know, like you can tell if you're not living within those values, what would you say you struggle with more kind of living within your values or setting and holding boundaries?
00;30;33;17
Alice
Probably setting and holding boundaries. I feel like when I was younger it was harder for me to live within my values. And I've gotten older. I've just gotten much more set and and protective. But the boundaries are harder for me because because I am such a relational person, I really like being in relationships with people that I'm sometimes I am.
I will not say no when I really want to say no, because I it's not even that I want to please that person. It's it's more I just I want to be with that person and I'm just kind of losing. I'm unaware that I that's not going to be healthy for me to stay up that late or add that to my schedule or do that extra task for them or, you know, that kind of thing.
00;31;20;09
Brenda
Yeah.
00;31;21;04
Alice
It was really hard for me with Jake to set boundaries when he was at home. I was just so worried. I was willing to do anything and actually I had to set logistical boundaries, of course, because I know how vulnerable I am. So, you know, I if I know that there's going to be like an asking of something from me that I might not be able to say no to, I don't respond for a long period of time until I can let my know be really a strong no, because I know my vulnerability.
I know that I'm not ready. I'm not that strong yet in the moment just to say no. So I have to have that buffer for a while.
00;32;07;04
Brenda
The response cap.
00;32;08;21
Alice
Yes, The magic responds. Yes.
00;32;12;17
Brenda
I wish I could like package that up and sell it. I'd probably be a billionaire. When when you think about kind of what's coming up in the next, you know, months with Jake and everything that he's, you know, going to be dealing with and where you are and what you have going on in your life and some of those decisions, how do you think you can make some space for some of the fun things that you want to do, some of the just to make sure that you have the headspace to align with your values, continue to work on your boundaries.
What what works for you as far as making space in your life?
00;32;56;11
Alice
I have to put it in the schedule. So for for like I have friends that I meet with for dinner and we've been also doing things like instead of me for dinner, we go for like, you know, a day hike or rock climbing or kayaking or something like that. That's like it's planned in the schedule and I wouldn't do it otherwise.
I wouldn't do it if I wasn't doing it with a friend, even though I've always wanted to. And so that it's like helps me do that. Going on the retreat, I'm very much looking forward to going on the retreat.
00;33;29;05
Brenda
I know I'm so excited.
00;33;32;14
Alice
Being in Park City in the fall. I can't wait. I'm visiting friends and I'm doing more trips and visiting good friends. And one boundary that I have set that has been hard is Jake originally wanted to come home in August and I don't feel comfortable with that because he's still not settled, completely settled. And his life there and his risk of, you know, coming home, going out with his friends who all smoke pot regularly doesn't feel right.
And I just didn't feel like I can support that. Now, he's 18. He could do what he wants. However, one of the things, you know, I have said is I won't I won't support that. And what I would support is maybe in October, after it's been a couple months, you're settled in, you know, kind of the hustle and bustle and figuring it out and sort of settled a little bit, you know, then you could come back, right?
He was wanting to come back for two weeks. I said, five days. Right. You know, things like that. And it's it's not that I don't see him. I never go out and visit him. I want to see him. So basically what I had to say is like, you couldn't you couldn't stay with me if you did that, which was very, very hard because I can't you know, I'm his mother, like, you know, just want to pull him in.
And if it were any other situation, a mother would say, if she can come home and stay home as long as you want. Right. Any other situation? A mother would say that. But in this situation, it's the more loving thing to do to set that boundary.
00;35;11;10
Brenda
100%. How did it feel when you were able to come to that? Because I'm sure you you've thought of many different iterations of what you might do. And then when you landed on, okay, this is what I can support and this is what I can't support. And then you communicated it. How did that feel to you?
00;35;30;27
Alice
It felt hard and good at the same time. It was really hard because he said, You don't want me to come home. And I said, So lutely, I want you to in in a really good place, in a very solid place. And so that's the element of time. And so it was both hard, but it also felt really good.
I also because I know my vulnerability that the times that he had thought he was maybe going to come, I planning trips to be out of town so that way I don't have that part of me that would melt and say, okay, you can come stay with me. Right right.
00;36;08;19
Brenda
Yeah, right. Yes. Well, in doing that work in advance so that you've already set yourself up and you've created those conditions under which you will be vulnerable and you won't be tempted is so healthy. Right? It's just it just saved you all the stuff that you know, could happen. And it's it's such a sign of development and growth on your part.
Do you recognize that.
00;36;36;04
Alice
You know, now that you say it, I can receive it. However, you know, it's hard when you're with yourself. 24 seven.
00;36;43;05
Brenda
Yes, it is.
00;36;44;12
Alice
To notice. And also, I'm sealing all the feelings inside, like the feelings of angst and that spinning in the right. Yeah, yeah. But it does set the boundary and it does feel good to know my limits to to just only limits and to make a decision that will help protect me.
00;37;01;11
Brenda
Yes. And you know that what you're doing is you're setting when you set a boundary like that as far as you, you're welcome to come home. But you won't be able to say with me is you're not doing that to punish your son. Right. You're doing that to protect yourself and what you know you need. And also there is an element of of hoping that you know some about what would be good for him and that that might not be good timing.
And sometimes we need therapists and people like that to help us like his therapist to help figure that out. But the primary for you doing that is that, you know, that would not be a good experience for you, for your mental health, your physical health. And that's what I think is so hard to communicate about boundaries and why I'm so grateful for you to share.
That is, sometimes you just need to hear an example of a real life boundary that somebody said that you can go like, Oh, okay, that makes total sense. Alice isn't doing that because she's trying to punish her son like you can't come home. It's for all the right reasons. What would feel supportive to you as far as thinking about this, as this dance of leaning in, leaning out, Do you feel like you have a good kind of go to plan or should we talk through that a little bit more?
00;38;30;29
Brenda
Because what I'm wondering is when you get the desire to become the project manager again, which I already have a full time job, so you do not need to add project to your list of things, what will you do to resist that urge?
00;38;51;10
Alice
I like your idea of the asking permission that that one is like if I'm thinking something and I ask permission, then right there that that is like a good sort of. If I'm thinking something could be good. I also one other thing that we did is we set up an appointment with his therapist just to say what are best ways to support him and and not support.
And based on what your your work with him. And then let's say all of that is and I'm just spinning. I feel like just going to my friend and going to support people going to the Stream Group, you know, just being able to not necessarily I don't like the word vent, but like run things by y'all, like, hey, this is I'm kind of toying with this and being able to get feedback because sometimes when I get validation and feedback that really soothes might soothe my soul.
Like when someone says, Oh, yeah, that sounds, that sounds right, or We did that. And this is kind of how it turned out on our end. In our experience right. Like, that's always super helpful for me.
00;39;56;13
Brenda
Yes, definitely. Getting some perspective is good. And you know, I think it's so great if he does want to involve you in some of the the work is to use language like, hey, do you want to brainstorm some ideas? Or you can do like a little mini workshop, which workshop might be a little too structured, but sometimes just knowing like, okay, we're not we don't have to set out to solve this problem.
There's so many different ways to provide support with, you know, like a coach or a mentor or a life coach or, you know, some different ADHD tools or whatever it is, using motivational interviewing to have him come up with what would be supportive. People believe what they hear themselves say. And so if he can be the one to say, well, maybe I could try this, or I used to do this, and I really it then, you know, you're just the one who's sort of like there to pull it out of him and to help broaden his his thinking.
And through a little brainstorming session or through a little like whiteboard session, because then he has that agency over himself and his decisions.
00;41;14;17
Alice
I like that. I like that. I like that, too. Just even just opening the door for conversation so that he can come up with the ideas Oh, he's really quite frankly, his ideas are always better than mine. And, you know, they're because they sit what he needs and they fit his situation and he knows himself better than anyone.
And so, like, his ideas are usually brilliant and so allowing and just opening the door for him to come up with those ideas and then validating him and and his journey and how treacherous this journey is.
00;41;50;05
Brenda
Yeah, it's a lot of work. I mean, I you know, the more I talk with folks on the podcast who are in recovery, who are adults and they say, are you kidding me? Your son got into recovery at 19 or what? I mean, when you talk to somebody who's done it and they hear about these young people who are and again, there could be lapses or whatever, and I think it's super hard for somebody who's 17, 18, 19 to say, I'm going to be sober forever.
But to have that mindset and to be working on that at such a young age, when you think about the fact that his brain isn't even fully developed, like his frontal lobe is still in the remodeling phase. So imagine when he's 20 or 21, you know, a my son would tell me at around 21, 22, you know, I feel a little smarter every day because he could actually feels the difference in his brain.
So to have a substance free brain, to have a brain that is, you know, healthy and in a good environment and working on new things, and then it's actually like the wires are connecting. Holy cow. It's amazing. But the work that these young people do at this age I think is pretty astounding, actually, because the pressure that they're under.
00;43;22;16
Alice
And then also the culture with social media and how that impacts how they feel and their brains and just all of that as well.
00;43;29;22
Brenda
Yes. I mean, they they live in a culture that is literally soaked in THC alcohol. And you, you know, apparently if you look at social media for young people, you can't have a good time unless you have those things included. So.
00;43;46;21
Alice
Right.
00;43;47;11
Brenda
I just I think it's we cannot reaffirm them enough when it comes to their decision to even be working on it. And if there's a lapse, like, okay, yeah, that makes sense.
00;43;59;24
Alice
You're right. The culture, the culture tells us like, you don't have a good time unless you're drinking. You don't have a good time unless you're smoking pot. You and and why not just have just have one. It's no big deal and it's all over and it's and now it's all over social media. So anytime they get on their phone, they're seeing it too.
And so to say no to all of that at he's 18 and age 18, takes a lot of energy. Takes a lot of energy.
00;44;26;05
Brenda
Huge energy. Yeah. If that's all he did all day long for the most part at this stage, that would just that would be amazing.
00;44;34;23
Alice
Yeah. Yeah.
00;44;36;24
Brenda
Well, my dear, I cannot wait to see you in two months. Give you a hug, and we'll be retreating in Park City.
00;44;44;18
Alice
So surreal because I feel like I know you all so well. And yet haven't met in person yet. And I'm. I'm. And I'm counting down the days. It's going to be so great.
00;44;55;10
Brenda
Oh, it's so great. And if you're listening and you want to get in on a retreat, if you've been on the fence about joining, this would be the time, because you do have to be a member to come to a retreat. But we all hang out together. We have so much fun, do amazing things. It's not sad. Everybody's like, Ooh, that sounds like kind of sad.
It's like, Oh, no, no, no. We have so much fun, So awesome. Okay, we'll let you get on with your day. I'm so glad we did this and have a good rest of your afternoon.
00;45;25;01
Alice
All right. You as well, Brenda. So good to talk with you. Thanks.
00;45;28;01
Brenda
You too. Bye bye.
00;45;29;13
Alice
All right, Bye bye.
00;45;31;17
Brenda
Okay. That is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to Brenda Zane Gqom forward slash podcast. All of the episodes are listed there and you can also find curated playlists there. So that's very helpful. You might also want to download a free e-book I wrote. It's called Hindsight.
Three Things I Wish I Knew when my son was Misusing drugs. It'll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are. And importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through this rough time. You can grab that free from Brenda's income. Forget hindsight. Thank you so much for listening.
I appreciate it. And I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself. And I will meet you right back here next week.