A Tribute To Bill Guy, A Role Model For Parents Who Love A Child Struggling With Drugs and Alcohol
Host: Brenda Zane, brenda@brendazane.com
Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Free ebook: “HINDSIGHT: 3 Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Misusing Drugs, by Brenda Zane. Download here
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Hopestream Community
Our nonprofit collection of educational and support services for parents when your child is misusing drugs or alcohol. Learn more at www.hopestreamcommunity.org.
About this episode:
It's a very special Hopestream episode today in memory of a dear friend and host of The Woods Community, Bill Guy. Bill passed away June 2nd and he leaves a big gap in the world. If you want to hear the voice of someone who led by example and epitomized the approach of love, education, empathy, boundaries and self-care when your child is misusing substances, you won't find anyone more pure than Bill.
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BILL GUY
My grandfather and three of the four boys ended up in the newspaper business, I grew up in, in a communications background, and so then when I went to college, I, I actually majored in speech and public address, but I have minors in journalism in English, and.
Things that are related to communications. I was a, teacher both in high school and, very briefly in elementary school, early in my career but, most of my teaching career was at the high school level and also at the community college level. I'm in a second marriage, but we've celebrated 32 years this year.
Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. I have a stepdaughter and a step son. I have a remaining, I have a son who's living and my youngest son is the son that we had issues with related to substances. And I now know that he, started experimenting around. The pot and different things like that when he was in, actually in junior high, and because he was not a custodial child all the time, I had him some, on weekends and a lot of time during the summer.
But as they're very adept, hiding things even when they're living with you 27. And so I didn't really become aware that Chris. Developed a serious problem with substances until after he had graduated from high school. And then by that time he was legally an adult. And the complications that come with that.
But, cause Chris Was out on his own and was working. I would find out sometimes secondhand, what was going on, what he was into, and it was just a long history of trauma was in courtrooms.
He was in emergency rooms. He was. Someone else's living room, sleeping on the couch. it was just,a nightmare. And we had generational alcoholism in our family, but we had never dealt with drugs. And, and I didn't use drugs as a young person myself, and so I didn't know.
I was just like, we like a deer in the headlights, And my thought was, there are treatment programs and we will find a treatment program and we'll get him into a treatment program. And then everything would be okay. . Yes. and, but of course what I know now is that, to go through a treatment program is kinda like someone being in a serious car accident and they're in the emergency room to take care of the critical needs and to.
See what it is. you may have to have your, you may have to have a cast, you may have to have a, you may have to have a walker, whatever it is that you need when you're dismissed from, emergency treatment. And then the difficult part is learning to. with all those adaptations. And, and and frankly, I, the first couple of times that he went into treatment, I manipulated him to get him there, And I, another thing that I know now is that, unless they have come to a place where they realize that they need to get treatment,it's not gonna be effective.
And it wasn't in his case. and then, I was in denial too much of the time. I just thought, it was something that he could quit, And I couldn't understand why he was putting himself through all this trauma and why he was putting us through all this trauma. And one of the many things that I have learned, I've learned so much more, over the last several years.
And I will admit I wasn't looking in the right directions, There is so much more that is available now, unfortunately, 20 years ago people who've had kids who were using drugs were aware of all this and people were aware of it peripherally, but I think it has affected so many people now that there is a growing awareness that we need to be doing.
But Chris. Was back in treatment. He had gotten in trouble with law. He was facing, jail time.
And so Chris was able to, through the drug court system, have an opportunity to go back into treatment. And, he was doing so well in this treatment because I think that he had dealt with it so long and had gone through so much trauma that he was tired of it at this point. And I think that the, I think that the, possibility of going to jail was the wake up call that he needed.
And he had reached a point where he could check himself out to go to get cigarettes from a convenience door or snacks or whatever, and we'll never know what, triggered him or motivated to not come back to the treatment center
and he checked himself out. He didn't come back and he overdosed the next morning, Saturday morning because he had been part of criminal justice system, they were able to identify him through fingerprints
and of course, That is everyone whose child is using drugs worse , nightmare. But, thankfully I had, a few years before that I had gone through two major depressions myself because it had gotten so bad that I could no longer deny that I had taken too long to come to the understanding of how serious That was, I was just in a bad shape myself. The first I got some counseling, was able to kinda get a grip on things, but. It was three or four years later when we had moved back to Oklahoma and I saw really for the first time, was going on and what it was doing to him, and it terrified me. And so the second time I went into a depressive spin, it was accompanied by panic attacks, and I had a panic attack one day going to work, almost had a serious wreck, and that was my wake up call That.
in, in a different way, but I was in as bad a shape as Chris was and that if I didn't do something that I was gonna be, it was gonna be damaging to me. My health was, and then how could I help not only him, but. be a husband to my wife and a father to our other three children and a grandfather to our grandchildren.
And so that was the point at which I got really involved in al a mom. I got involved in therapy again. I had a course of cognitive behavior therapy that gave me a really difficult opportunity to. Take a real look at the things that terrified me and explore them and come to an understanding that I could not control his behavior.
That. , his journey was his journey and that I couldn't control that. I couldn't fix him, I couldn't make him get well, The best thing that I could do would be to try to get as well myself as I could. and then I became a volunteer peer parent coach through the Partnership to End Addiction, which, uses the craft model, which, in a nutshell teaches parents how to.
Take care of themselves to the point where they can control, not completely control, but yeah. But you can learn how to moderate your emotional, dysfunction so that when the phone rings, you don't freak out and start passing. You find a quiet place and you take a few breaths and you pause and you say, ok, this is what we're dealing with now.
What's, what can I do in this situation? What can I not do in this situation? and it allows you, as a parent or a loved one to, self-regulate yourself so that you can, to the best of your ability, given the situation, respond calmly, respond, compassionately. and then if the child kinda is in a situation or makes a decision that they want to get, well then, and it also teaches you to maintain connection with them and emphasize the loving relationship.
We are so frustrated at times as parents. What we're so frustrated about is that we learned that we can't make them do what we want them to do, , And we can't fix that. But what we can fix is our relationship with them. I heard some things early on, you let them hit bottom, you need to detach from them.
You need to, let them get miserable enough that they're going to get well. Have a conversation with them and say, You know what? You pack your bags and you, hit the road or do whatever you need to do. And when you get back, when you decide that you wanna get, well, we'll be here.
I could never do that . Yeah. But I did have to learn to set some boundaries that if you are going to use hard drugs, that it's possible that a drug deal's gonna go bad and someone's gonna show up here. we can't live like that. and if the decision is yours, if you want.
and there were periods when he lived with us and lived with his mom and stepdad and we both sets parents, came to a place where we realized that, We had to take care of ourselves.
I would stay in contact with him by phone. I would text him. Sometimes he would answer, sometimes he wouldn't.
but sometimes he would let me, take him to lunch or take him to breakfast or whatever. And so I had come to a place where I realized that Chris's journey with his, and that if I let my terror about what he was doing, debilitate me that not only was he not living a good life, I wasn't living a good life either, and neither was I in a.
To help him if he decided that he wanted to get well.
But the work that I had done to try to help him get well, if he decided to get well, also put me in good stead to be able to come along on the journey of grief and the way that I came to, that I could best deal with the trauma of his substance use and then subsequently the trauma of his.
Was to try to help other people that were desperate and lost and terrified like I was, and if I could help them, that it would not only help me along my journey, but it would give meaning to Chris' story.
[00:11:18] Brenda: the loss of your son is just so unimaginable and I think it's, it is every parent's worst nightmare, obviously, to get that phone call.
And so what I'm constantly amazed by is the resilience that people like you have to take that and. I don't want this to happen to someone else, and I'm gonna do whatever I can. You talked about how you were almost as sick as him, obviously in a different way. Yeah. And when we talk about dads and fathers and stepfathers and,male caregivers it seems that there's. Almost like a man code of, I'm not gonna talk about it. Everything's fine in my family. I'm gonna put on this, armor and I'm gonna go to work and I'm gonna do what I have to do. But clearly inside you were dying. you're just so sick. yeah. How do you see that playing out even today?
[00:12:22] Bill Guy: like I said, it took me having a major clinical depression and panic attacks and almost having a wreck on the highway to realize, you're not okay.
You're not dealing with this, I'm not gonna say it's any more difficult for men than it is for women. but there are differences, I think, in the way that we respond. Again, this is, talking in generalities, In general, I think in our culture, the man is expected to be the strong one.
And the man, you've gotta be brave and you've gotta be strong. And it's not appropriate for you to show your emotions. And, especially if the emotion is, crying or expressing pain or expressing inability to do something
and, I just think that's part of our culture.
Yeah. we're the ones that are supposed to fix it. And the moms are the ones that are the nurturers. Mothers are the ones that take the kids to the doctors.
Usually mothers are the ones that usually take care of enrolling their kids in school and making sure they have all the supplies. The dads, my job is to pay for all the stuff that you're gonna buy him, and I know this from my own experience as a high school teacher, we would have a night to come talk about your kids progress, and sometimes both parents would come, but it was very rare for a dad to come by himself.
[00:13:41] Brenda: it's so sad because you and I both know. The pain, and if somebody's listening to this, they are clearly also feeling that burden of knowing that your child is so at risk. And to not be able to express that, to a friend or a coworker, and to really just have to put on the facade that everything's okay, is just so toxic to our systems, as you found out.
[00:14:13] Bill Guy: And Brenda, what I just thought of was, when we came back to Oklahoma, about eight years, and I discovered how bad Chris was and what the problem he had.
I did find some places here in the area and I thought, I'm just gonna show up to some of these places and ask them what I can do. In most instances, what I was met with was, your son's an adult and we really can't, you just need to get him here.
you need to get him here. And it was like, If I could get him here, then even when a father decides, I'm gonna take this bull by the horns, and do something about it, you run up against roadblocks.
And I'll say this too, and I don't mind saying it cause I will say that I'm of a mature age, it was just the dad's job was to come in and be the disciplinarian. and if you didn't do what he wanted you to do, you were gonna get punished for it, or you were gonna get cussed out for it, or there were gonna be, hell pay, I'm just gonna say blaming and shaming and guilt and punishment. even when we just think about those words in, in the abstract, it ought to be obvious to that's work, right? But it's just. Pattern, that certainly I grew up with.
But I think if you're a father and you grew. in the fifties and sixties and maybe even into the seventies, you probably were raised where, children were supposed to be quiet and do what they were told, and if they didn't, they got punished.
But that doesn't work with addiction.
[00:15:46] Brenda: maybe I can ask you, because what I hear from the moms in the stream is my. Male, co-parent, spouse, partner, ex won't get on board with craft because it feels soft. It feels very permissive. It feels squishy. What would you say to that, to a guy who's like, Okay, I've been doing this other thing and it's not really working.
I've heard about this craft approach. I don't know, like what would you say to somebody like that?
[00:16:17] Bill Guy: I'll just say that it works.
I think in our culture, for men We're supposed to be in control of things, right?
We're supposed to be in control of our jobs. We're supposed to be able to con things. And it's really difficult for men to give up the idea that they're gonna be able to control the situation. I just encourage 'em to give it a try. sometimes I'll just say,it seems pretty obvious that what you're trying is not working.
Would you at least consider this? but basically what it boils down to is you gotta get a grip on yourself. Yeah. So you're not freaking out. And then just give it a try what it really involves. learning how to set healthy boundaries, but how to have a conversation with your child
I look back now I had begun to learn this and I had begun to be able to do it some, but you know how. Chris, help me understand what this is doing for you.
Help me understand what you're getting from this. What is it that you, you feel like how this helps you? and also, what are your dreams? what are your goals in life? what kinda life would you really like to have? If you could just, if you could just have the life that you'd desired, what would it be like and then fostered that relationship so that they don't, when they see you coming, know that they're gonna get a criticism or know that they're gonna get some, this is what you need to do rather than, son, what is it that you want to do and how can I help you get there? And can we both agree that drugs are probably not gonna be the thing that's gonna help you get there, But at least I understand what you're doing, but how can I help you find some other things that would provide what it is that you need and what you want that's not drugs.
And that's really what the craft method is like. And it does sound kinda soft, but I'm telling you, it's powerful.
[00:18:11] Brenda: so ultimately, you didn't get to see the, the long term. Benefits of craft. But what you said I think is so critical, which is I still had a relationship with him. Yeah. Because you can go through this and you can be distant and you cannot talk and you can completely lose a relationship.
Yeah. Or even if they continue in their use. At least you're talking, at least you're having those dialogues. Yes. Yes. And that is gold, right?
[00:18:40] Bill Guy: Yes. Even if they continue to use, and I think that in some people's minds that becomes, excusing their use or justifying their use or whatever.
But I'm telling you isn't it better have. At least a relationship with them so that you're not antagonistic with each other. Now, sometimes you do have to set a boundary, but it's not about punishing them, it's about letting them know, Sudden we love you with our whole heart, and if you decide that you wanna get well, we will do whatever we can to help you get well.
But if you choose to use. We don't feel safe, and so you're gonna have to live somewhere else. And that's not, he didn't like hearing that. But that's so different from your little sob pack your bags and get out and don't come back, Yes. and,and like you said, I didn't get to see the full fruits of craft, but I did get involved.
That even when he was out there, we were able to have a relationship. Yeah. That wasn't antagonistic. I could take him to breakfast and I could take him to dinner and I could see if he needed new shoes, could him shoes
but we had reached a point where we could really talk to one another and one of the last conversations that I had with Chris was, both of us apologizing to each other for things that had been said, things that had been done, things that should have been done, that weren't done, and just really expressing love to each other.
And one of the last things that Chris told me was, Dad, I didn't always like what you said, I didn't always like what you wanted me to do, but I never, ever doubted that it was motivated outta love. Mm-hmm. . and I'll sure take that as a memory now that he's gone, other than me telling him to get out.
I think craft allowed us to get to that point in a relationship.
because I had learned that it wasn't about punishing him, it was.
It was about setting a relationship that we needed and he loved us and we knew we needed. Yeah,
Unfortunately there's still stigma, there's still shame around this. Mm-hmm. Makes it more difficult to deal with, difficult with emotions and man, when you're dealing with a child who's grossly misbehaving, there's a lot of emotions involved and I don't think that we're taught in this culture, how to deal with anger and men, it, I, I think cause of the, like you said, Like toxic masculinity.
Men are supposed to be tough, men are supposed to be fighters. Men are supposed to push through. Men are supposed to gut it out. and I think that,to be in a group of men that were raised in that environment, who I just felt like that I just found my place because everyone understood I didn't have to, I didn't have to try to be strong.
I didn't have to try to have the answer. For me, and I think for other men that I've talked to who have found a group of men, who, are going through this. it's just Oh, I, I can just be real here.
when we are, operating outta frustration and shame it, it does to us What. Gave me two major depressions and panic attacks. If circumstances happen that say, okay, and we know the stages of change are, usually something mitigating has to happen before someone decides to make a major change about. But if they decide that they want to make a change, then craft allows us to be in a healthy place to be able to help them at that point rather than.
Just tied up and not soci. Yeah.
There's always hope right now.
there's always hope. And there's hope for life after the worst that can happen to you. Im wanna close, you said all the things that really happened that brought you to this place very early in life. Fortuitously, I came across a book by Victor Frankel, Dr. Victor Frankel, Man, Search for Meaning, and he wrote this book outta his experience as a concentration camp, survivor. He survived owi. He was a Jewish psychiatrist and he was sent to, in all of his other family were killed.
And the only reason. He lived is cause he was on the detail that took the bodies from the gas chambers to the crematoriums. And through that awful, horrible experience, he said, in that circum. I came face-to-face with the, that the only thing that we as human beings have control over is our ability to decide how we're react to whatever happens to us. , and, I fell off the wagon many times, but that's been a touch point that I've always come back to.
And so even if the worst happens to you, You have the opportunity to decide to try to make something outta it. And that's what I'm trying to do.